Orders of the Day — Ministry of Defence Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 22 November 1946.

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Photo of Mr Oliver Lyttelton Mr Oliver Lyttelton , Aldershot 12:00, 22 November 1946

I mean the three Services. My point is that I should like to see the Defence Committee dealing with purely military things in the sense of all Services and having arrived at the military optimum, then the economic Ministers should come in and see how the pattern could be arranged in accordance with the resources of the country.

The second point is that the Minister of Defence should again consider the relationship of the Ministry of Supply with the Service Departments. I know that where the Ministry of Supply is engaged upon the manufacture of purely civilian supplies for the civilian population, only certain goods or products can be made, the reason for which is that we keep alive our war potential at small cost to the country, while at the same time providing the civilian population with some of their necessities. The making of aluminium houses can be defended or partially defended because it keeps alive a certain rolling capacity of the country which may in the future—although we hope not—be useful in the manufacture of aeroplane wings and components. Once we get out of the field which really can be defended on that line, it is inexcusable to load the Ministry of Supply with the manufacture of civilian articles when, under the Ministry of Defence, one of the most difficult tasks to be performed is to keep abreast of the probable requirements of war materials, and also the task of trying to coordinate some inert process of production with the constantly changing need of the technical battle as foreseen by the Cabinet's military advisers. I do feel that greater concentration on the problems of war is required than has been indicated as the policy of the new Ministry of Defence.

The last point which I wish to raise has already been answered in part by the Prime Minister. There is a feeling shared in many parts of the House that the Ministry of Defence should not become a very bloated Department, and there is only one aspect of that on which I wish to touch —the central services of the three fighting Departments. I do not think that any hon. Member who has a knowledge of these matters will deny that certain defences should be set up against the Treasury. It has been in the past the purpose of the Treasury rather to play off one Department against the other in the matter of essential services, an example of which is that the pay of Navy and Army doctors has never been on an exactly comparable basis. There clearly is a function for the Minister of Defence to try to get in the three Services a degree of coordination, particularly over pay. I trust that we may have some assurance—and I think the Prime Minister has given it by implication—that the Minister of Defence himself will not be administering these common services organisations, of which the medical service is one, while there are others such as the handling and administration of prisoners of war which is a question common to all three Services. I do hope we shall hear that, whilst the Minister of Defence is going to coordinate these matters, he is not himself going to take over these common services and try to run them from a central position, because I think that would immediately clutter up the Ministry of Defence.

I also feel that that part of his duties which relates to the allocation of the resources has been rather glozed over, and unless there is to be a fairly large organisation of supply committees the matter of the allocation of the national resources to the various services and to the various systems of defence, which is a first rate administrative job, may be endangered. I hope we will hear a little more about that, although I am not sure that it arises today. Of course, we are not told in the Bill where the headquarters of the Ministry of Defence are going to be, but if the Minister of Defence is to work in close cooperation with the three Services, if conditions obtain like last year, the Minister of Defence will be divided between London, Cairo and Paris, or, if in London, he will work largely with the Secretary of State for War. I do not say that in any spirit of levity, but only to urge His Majesty's Government to ensure that we will be able to see the Secretaries of State for the defence Departments as we can see the Secretary of State for War this morning. We on this side of the House are in general agreement, even in particular agreement, with the Measure which is now before us, and in those cir- cumstances the House will not wish to hear me continue any longer.