Orders of the Day — National Insurance (Industrial Injuries) Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 18 February 1946.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Sir Frank Soskice Sir Frank Soskice , Birkenhead East 12:00, 18 February 1946

There seems to be some misapprehension in the House as to precisely what we are discussing. Suppose Clause 9 were not in the Bill, the position would be that as from the point when you can fairly say that the workman starts on his duties to his employer within the meaning of the earlier section in the Bill he is acting "in the course and arising out of ". Clause 9 does not in any way limit that, it extends it. The reason for Clause 9 is really that in the well-known case of the St. Helens Colliery Company it was held that when people were riding on a vehicle, unless it could be said that in some way they were discharging a duty because they were made or told to ride on that vehicle by their employer, they were not covered. The object of this Clause is to extend the cover in that direction; that is to say, it, does not lessen it from the commencement of the beginning point of the duty, but extends it to the case where a person is travelling on a vehicle which the employer provides but is not doing so in response to any specific request or demand by the employer that he should so do. So we must approach this Clause from the point of view that this is an extension of the normal cover.

Suppose the Clause were not there at all, and one were considering the position, that all sides of the House want to give the fullest and most ample cover. It is apparent that one must draw the dividing line somewhere; as from some particular point it can only fairly be said that the workman is undergoing no risks other than those that are undergone by ordinary members of the public, close to whom he finds himself, whether in a crowd or in a queue or on the pavement. So at some point or other you have to make a dividing line from the point where he is undergoing risks common to every member of the public and the point where he enters on his duty to his employer and is subject to risks incidental to that employment. From that point the cover does apply to him; but before that the cover, of necessity, cannot apply. That is the position on Clause 9 which extends the cover in the sense I have indicated.

The Amendment before the House introduces the words "as a passenger" and does not lessen the cover given apart from Clause 9 but simply says that when extra cover is given to workmen travelling on vehicles, it shall apply to them only if they are travelling as passengers. In reply to the right hon. Member for North Leeds (Mr. Peake), if a man is riding a bicycle, I do not think it can fairly be said that he is riding as a passenger. Similarly, if a man is riding in a motor car as the driver of the motor car, I do not think he could be said to be a passenger, and therefore he would not be within the cover under Clause 9. On the other hand, if a cyclist is riding to fetch some newspapers to deliver, he comes within the general cover independently of Clause 9 and, similarly, if in the course of his duties, a man has to drive a motor vehicle, he would come within the general scope of the cover because he would be performing his duty as a driver.