Debate on the Address

Part of Orders of the Day — King's Speech – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 30 November 1944.

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Photo of Mr Ivor Thomas Mr Ivor Thomas , Keighley 12:00, 30 November 1944

Well, shall I say he cannot have more than one or two decades of life to look forward to? I should have thought that legitimate ambition, kept within bounds, is a necessary ingredient in a political life. Mr. Ewer makes another statement, which may get us closer to the heart of the problem. He says: There has long been suspicion that Count Sforza has been working to whittle down Italy's armistice obligations and to weaken Allied control. What does that mean? It means nothing more or less than that Count Sforza is a good Italian patriot. Before we can judge of the accuracy of that statement we must know what the Armistice terms are. His Majesty's Government have not yet made them known, although they have been frequently requested to do so by the Italian Government and by Members of this House. Will they not now tell us what are the Armistice terms imposed on Italy which it is alleged that Count Sforza desires to whittle down? I am myself inclined to believe that if I were in his position I should wish to do the same. The reluctance of His Majesty's Government to publish these details lends colour to the view that the terms are such that they will not bear the light of day. If the Government deny this, will they let us have them to see what they are?

When I cannot get guidance from Mr. Ewer on the views of the Foreign Office I turn in the second place to "The Times," although what I am now going to quote is not from their diplomatic correspondent but from their Rome correspondent, and there the reason given is this. Sir Noel Charles, it is said, told the Italian Ministers that the constant wrangling among the six parties which professed to represent the Italian nation had caused much concern in London. I ask us to be practical and realistic about this alleged wrangling. At a time when we are envisaging the end of our own Coalition, can we throw stones at the six Italian parties for such disputes as take place among them? Whatever wrangling they may have there has never been any divergence of view on the one essential thing, that is, clearing the Germans out of Italy as quickly as possible. The main complaint has been that they have not been allowed to mobilise their full effort for that purpose. In fact, the unity that has been achieved in Italy, both on the political and on the industrial side, is remarkable. I would single out for notice the fact that, for the first time in Europe, the Christian Democrats, the Socialists and the Communists have come together in the same trade unions. That is a phenomenon of the utmost importance, and it has been achieved in this Italy which is said to be the centre of so much wrangling.

These are the theories given in the newspapers for this unusual action, but I have heard other allegations. I have heard it stated in very well-informed circles in London that the real reason is that a struggle is going on between the Soviet Union and Great Britain for the control of Italy and that Count Sforza has been too much inclined to the Communist side in this struggle. I do not believe that story for a moment. I think it is complete nonsense, but it is being stated in well-informed circles as an explanation of this unusual step. As far as my own letters with Count Sforza show—and there is no need for him to have concealed his thoughts in these letters, because I have taken precautions that they do not pass through the hands of the censor—he takes the view that the best antidote to Communism is a full-blooded programme of social reform, and that if the Allies should try to rivet the Monarchy, or any neo-Fascist elements, on Italy it would inevitably have the result of throwing Italy into Communist hands. But, as I say, I do not believe that that is the explanation.

There is another explanation offered and I think it deserves some examination. This is not the first time that a ban has been put on this Italian Minister. I propose, with the leave of the House, to make a quotation from a paper which I have before me and which purports to give a shorthand report of the meeting between Marshal Badoglio, General Eisenhower, Field Marshal Alexander and other high Allied officers at Malta, on 29th September, 1943, on board H.M.S. "Nelson." In the course of that meeting, General Eisenhower asked Marshal Badoglio: What do you think of Sforza? Badoglio replied: I know Sforza well and therefore I have a personal opinion about him, but I understand that His Majesty— that is to say King Victor Emmanuel— will not accept him, because it seems that in the past he has manifested anti-monarchical ideas. At that point, General Smith and Field Marshal Alexander passed a note to General Eisenhower, who read it and went on thus: It could be proved to me that Sforza has sent to Badoglio a message promising, with certain conditions, his collaboration. What do you think of it?