Orders of the Day — Agriculture (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 16 May 1944.

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Photo of Mr Robert Richards Mr Robert Richards , Wrexham 12:00, 16 May 1944

I am sure the Minister must be feeling very pleased with the reception that the Bill has had. He told us this was the fifth that he had introduced during the war. I do not think we have any grounds to quarrel with the provisions which have been outlined, except perhaps the first. That will, possibly, be a, bone of contention. I entirely agree with the last speaker, who advocated a review of the position of farmers who borrowed at a high rate of interest, in view of the fact that the farmers of the future are going to have so much better terms. It is encouraging to find that, in future, it will be possible, in any one year, to borrow up to a sum of £34,000,000, as compared with something like £10,000,000. There is no doubt that the re-equipment of agricultural premises particularly is a problem of very great importance from every point of view. The Minister is possibly interested in the animals on the farm, but some of are interested in the people too. I could never quite understand why cottages should be subject to some kind of control, while no control is exercised over farmhouses, which are scandalously dilapitated. We welcome very much the extension of the provision that has been made whereby farmers may in future borrow in order that they may put agriculture, from that point of view, on a better footing. We welcome, too, the extension of the lime subsidy, which has proved of real benefit. Anyone who goes about the country will be much encouraged to find it again presenting the appearance that it presented some 40 years ago, when there was regular periodical liming. One is very glad to think that this kind of encouragement is to be continued.

With regard to Clause 1, which has been the subject of some adverse comment, I should like to understand the set-up as it was outlined by the Minister. I agree that there are considerable variations between county and county and I am not surprised that he has attempted to get the slow going counties to move faster and to bring them up to the standard of the better ones. One rejoices very much to hear that it is the intention of the Ministry at no distant time to have a Farm Institute in each county, and possibly more than one in some counties. Agricultural education in the counties has so far been indifferently carried on under agricultural committees. They are particularly proud of their powers but I do not know that they have always exercised them as wisely and extensively as they could. I presume that is one of the reasons why the old agricultural committees were not employed when the war began. New committees of an entirely different character had to be created and the old agricultural committees have gone into the background. They have generally appointed what the Minister referred to as a sort of general adviser. In the first instance he was a lecturer, and in most counties he has continued to go round lecturing, particularly during the wintertime. Some have been very successful and others less successful. I do not know that the advice he has been able to give has amounted to a very great deal in many cases. He has had, of course, some training in agriculture but all his time was taken up with giving popular lectures on general agriculture, and I do not think that many farmers went to the county organiser, as we called him, for advice. It is true that in those counties where you have a Farm Institute you have a considerably higher standard, and you hive there an opportunity for giving advice, particularly to young farmers. I am not surprised that the Minister is very anxious that that kind of work should be much more thoroughly done by far better trained people on the whole and, of course, that kind of work in future is going to be intimately linked up with the educational work of the counties and that is all to the good.

When I come to the next stage, namely, specialist advice, which the Minister outlines in his scheme, I do not feel equally happy. A friend of mine pointed out the work that is being done by the university colleges and by the universities in this respect. I would like to ask the Minister or the Parliamentary Secretary what will be the exact position of these specialists with regard to research work, because I think that the great benefit of the close attachment there has been so far between the agricultural advisers and the universities is the very essence of the business.

We must remember that through the universities and the university colleges, young farmers take their degree in agriculture. That will go on. In addition to taking a degree in agriculture under present conditions at the university and university colleges, there are these specialists of the Board of Agriculture engaged in research and in giving the benefit of their advice to the farmers. I cannot conceive of anything better than young farmers occasionally attending the universities to be lectured by people engaged in research. In my opinion that is the very essence of university life, and it is a great benefit to ordinary agriculturists that they should meet the specialist at his work, see him at his bench so to speak.

In the case of North Wales, at one of the colleges with which I am associated, research work is being done there very successfully on the question of diseases in sheep. Nearly all the farmers in North Wales know that at that university college there are one or two specialists intimately interested in sheep diseases, and consequently they go along to the college in order to see how the work is done. Are the new specialists—who, I presume, will be appointed for provinces, although we have not yet had details as to the extent of the provinces—going to carry on research in new laboratories away from the universities? Is it not really advisable to keep up this very vital contact which these people have established between the university, on the one hand, and the farming community on the other? I know my farmer friend will excuse my saying that it is not always the case that the farmer is very keen on "book larnin'." It has taken some time to persuade the people in my county to send their boys to the university. Though that change has undoubtedly taken place, some of the best work in the university has been done by the advisers to the Ministry who are attached to the university staff. Unless the Minister has a greatly superior system, I should be very sorry to see that link broken between the university and the farmer.

There is another point which seems to me rather difficult. Am I to understand that, after a certain period of time, all those at present employed either by the county council on agricultural work, or by the university, are to be advised to apply for a post under the new organisation? Or am I misreading the Bill altogether? It is a very delicate matter because, as I think has already been pointed out, it may mean, speaking generally, that the standard obtained by the general agricultural adviser in some counties is not the kind of standard which the Minister is trying to achieve, and he would find considerable hesitation in re-employing a man who has been employed by the county council. I do not think that will apply in the case of the university, where the standard is generally higher, but it does leave upon my mind an impression of the possibility of unfair dealing. I know that compensation is being offered under the Bill but it is a very delicate matter.

I welcome the Bill very warmly. I have pointed out some of the things that cause me a little trouble but, apart from these, I hope that we shall see the Bill on the Statute Book, and that agriculture everywhere in this country will have at its service a most competent, capable advisory body which will always be at the beck and call of the farmer.