Ministry of War Transport

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at on 4 May 1944.

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Photo of Mr Emanuel Shinwell Mr Emanuel Shinwell , Seaham

I would regard the observation of the hon. Member for Swindon (Mr. Wakefield) as elementary. It requires, at the same time, amplification and this is not the occasion, but the hon. Member in a moment or two will see the direction in which I am driving. It is clear that, whether it is public ownership or not that emerges from the Department of my hon. Friend for the purpose of post-war transport, at any rate, proposals that are bound to emerge will be associated with a large measure of co-ordination. That cannot be debated now.

My hon. Friends opposite make a song and dance on the retention of controls, but who wants controls for the sake of controls? We do not want controls merely for the purpose of enabling people to sign forms or for other restrictive purposes. On the other hand, hon. Members will observe that controls become imperative in order to secure certain desirable objectives. Let us concern ourselves with the objectives. [An HON. MEMBER: "Come over here."] I have been doing my best for several months now to use arguments which I thought would have the effect of persuading hon. Members opposite to come over here. Whether they come over here or not is beside the point. In an ideological sense—I say this to them, and I know this country and the people of this country with whom I have associated myself as well as any other hon. Member—80 per cent. of the people of this country, if they had to determine tomorrow the fate of the transport services of this country, would decide for public ownership. There is no doubt that this House has been influenced in the past by public clamour, and it will be again, for the post-war consideration of transport services. The question of co-ordination is something with which I am familiar. I have engaged actively in the examination of the problem, but I am concerned about immediate objectives and getting something done. Some of us are getting a little old, and I hope will be forgiven for that. It is all right for younger Members who have plenty of time with which to play. Some of us have been working for 20 or 30 years to get something done to effect desirable social changes in the country and we want to get something done. Therefore, we look for the most practical means of carrying out our suggestions.

I am going to make a suggestion to my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary within the limits of the statement he made. He asked for suggestions. If I were asked what were the three primary objectives in relation to the railway system of the country I would say—and I hope that my hon. Friend will take note —that the first is to secure as rapidly as possible—I am not speaking of the war, because obviously this cannot be done during the war as there are difficulties—the complete electrification of our rail system.