Amendment of Law

Part of Orders of the Day — Ways and Means – in the House of Commons at on 27 April 1944.

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Photo of Captain James Duncan Captain James Duncan , Kensington North

If I attempted to tell the hon. Member that I am sure I should be called to Order. I now wish to refer to the size of the post-war Budget. The present Budget totals £5,937,000,000—the figures are so enormous that they are difficult to understand—of which sum borrowing accounts for £2,837,000,000 and taxes £3,100,000,000. While one may hope that borrowing on any large scale will not be necessary after the war, at any rate after the first year or two, we shall still have to find the enormous sum of £3,100,000,000, taking the revenue from taxes alone. According to page 13 of the Tables that is 36 per cent, of the national income. If you assume—I am not quite sure to what extent one can assume—that the national private income, personal and impersonal, remains in the region of £8,500,000,000, in my opinion 36 per cent, of that is far too high. Mr. Norman Crump in the "Sunday Times" some weeks ago said he did not fear a Budget of £2,000,000,000, which is 25 per cent, of the national income. My own view is that something in the nature of 20 per cent, rather than 25 per cent, would be much nearer the figure. My view has always been that all taxation is bad and that it is best, as far as one can, to leave the money to fructify in the pockets of the people. Obviously we must envisage a very much larger Budget of national expenditure than prewar, but something in the nature of £1,500,000,000 or £1,600,000,000 rather than £2,000,000,000 would seem to be the figure to aim at.

I entirely agree with everything that has been said here and in the Press as to the essential character of the National Savings Scheme and the success that has attended it, and I also congratulate all the voluntary workers, and those led by Lord Kindersley, who have made such a success of the movement. But the time will come after the war when, in my opinion, national savings should be diverted and the Government should cease to rely on these vast sums. My first reason is that the Government already have a very heavy potential burden in the repayment of these National Savings Certificates at any moment and, as this burden grows, so a bigger proportion has to be set aside year by year to meet the potential obligations.

It is desirable after the war that the burden should grow less rather than continue to grow bigger. My second reason is that capital after the war is going to be very difficult to find, particularly by industry. I believe we ought to divert it if we possibly can, because the main channel of getting capital will not be through the big capitalist people but through the smaller and medium savers. That ought to be diverted to industry in some way. I should like to see the workers take a shareholding interest in their own factories. I should like to see Birmingham workers take a shareholding interest in Birmingham factories, but, as a corollary, we must envisage some control over the investments that are made.

I am not prepared, at the moment, to say exactly how I would do it, but I would like the Chancellor to consider, in the months that are coming, some form of control of investment, or licensing of stock exchanges and a prohibition of outside broking, dealing in stocks or whatever it may be, because I feel that, in order to protect the worker investor, we must exercise some form of discretionary control so that he is not "done" in the way the capitalist used to be "done" before the war. I put that suggestion forward in a somewhat hesitating spirit, because, at the moment, neither I, nor, I think, anybody else, has thought it out, but I believe, for the two reasons I have given, that we must at some time, fairly soon after the war, take definite steps to divert savings to industry, away from the State, assuming, of course, that savings will go on now that the habit has been formed. I hope my right hon. Friend will think about it.

In conclusion, I would like to say that I think this Budget is a sound, statesmanlike Budget. Having imposed no increases in taxation, it has created a feeling of relief among people that things are not worse. It is also a forward-looking Budget—forward-looking beyond victory to the peace. It is a Budget on which, I think, the Government as a whole are to be congratulated. I hope the Government will take a firm stand upon my right hon. Friend's statement, in the policy they will, pursue in the future.