Allied Powers (War Service) Bill.

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at on 25 June 1942.

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Photo of Mr Cecil Wilson Mr Cecil Wilson , Sheffield, Attercliffe

In Clause 1 of this Bill it states that the National Service Acts, 1939 and 1941, will be operative, but there were two sentences used by the Parliamentary Secretary which gave the impression that that was not really intended. He said that the only ground for exemption would be that these people were doing essential work and that exemption would be granted only when their Government wished to have these people exempted. That is not in accordance with the Acts which we have in operation in this country. The provisions of a Norwegian Act of 1922 provide for dealing both in peace and war with those who are described as "refractaires from motives of conscience." Incidentally, the Norwegians who have been under conscription for a long time, and who have made changes, found a better term than "conscientious objection." Conscientious objection means nothing to the vast majority of the people of this country. When it is talked about as the Ministry of Labour talk about it, it reminds me of the man who came to me to make an objection to the vaccination of his child. He declared that he had a conscientious objection to it on the ground that it would be prejudicial to the health of his child and said as he walked away, "You know, this is my second child. My first child was vaccinated and has had all the ailments to which a child can be subjected. Now I will see how this one gets on without it."

This same idea is held by the vast majority of the people of this country, not excepting Members of this House, as to what is conscientious objection. The use of the word "refractaires" or some other such expression is very much more appropriate. In the Norwegian Act conscience is more strictly interpreted. It states that alternative service shall have no connection with military institutions or operations. During the years that conscription has been in operation the Norwegians have learned lessons from it. The Act also states that during alternative service persons serving have the right to maintenance and clothing and to whatever is provided for the soldier. Their families have the right to what is provided for the families of soldiers. There is very little of that kind in this country. In a statement of the motives of the law the Governmental Commission is of the opinion that the execution of the law should be effected in such wise as to avoid the danger of alternative service taking the character of penal service. That is not in operation in this country. You have tribunals in all parts of the country using most objectionable terms in regard to some of these people. I see that the Parliamentary Secretary shakes his head, but in a few days I will let him have a long list. The Act goes on to state: or that opinion should mistake it for something other than a compensatory employment in lieu of military service. That views the whole thing in a different light, and I am not surprised to hear that the Government knew nothing of Norweigian law. If they had studied them, our laws would be on a much more satisfactory basis.