National Service Bill.

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at on 9 December 1941.

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Photo of Mr Hastings Lees-Smith Mr Hastings Lees-Smith , Keighley

We recognise, therefore, the high significance attached to it, but what it means will depend entirely upon the degree to which it is implemented in the future. Proposals will be brought before the attention of the Government to carry out what we believe should be done, and the response to these proposals will undoubtedly have a very big effect on the future attitude of my hon. Friends to the Government as a whole.

I wish to call to the attention of the Government a series of events which fill me with a good deal of apprehension. The Minister of Labour stated that at present we were getting men and women, especially women, by indirect pressure which this Bill would enable us to remove. If properly carried out, this Bill will remove certain class differences which undoubtedly exist in the call-up of women. So far as I am aware, most working women are already in production, because they have been compelled to find work owing to economic circumstances. On the other hand, women who are in a rather more comfortable position have not been subjected to the same financial pressure, and I am sure that a far larger proportion of these women are outside production. One of the results of this Bill will undoubtedly be that of the 400,000 single women under 30 who will be taken into production, a far larger proportion will come from those who are rather more comfortably off, and whom we wish to bring in under this Measure.

These are the series of events which have caused me some disturbance. I have made fairly careful inquiries, and I wish to bring the matter to the attention of the Government. My hon. Friend the Member for Llanelly (Mr. James Griffiths) has laid it down that in taking men from highly-paid occupations to lower-paid occupations, we must insist that in making this financial sacrifice there shall be no distinction between workers, technicians, managers and employers. I am sure the House will accept that doctrine. I have reason to believe, however, that it is being evaded in this way: There are two types of Government factories to which men and women will be transferred. Firstly, there are the Royal Ordnance factories, which are owned by the Government, in which everyone is directly employed by the Government, and in which the managers, technicians and supervising staff are paid on Treasury scales of pay. Secondly, there is the other group of factories, also owned and built by the Government, not directly operated by the Government, but handed over to private concerns. They are called agency factories. The agents are paid by the Treasury, and in this case the salaries of managements are far above the Government scales, in spite of the fact that the managements are paid by the Government, because the agency fees which are paid by the Treasury cover these higher scales of salary. Therefore it is a fact that in the same factory to which workers have been transferred, while the workers' wages have dropped from £8 a week to £4 a week, the managers, technicians and heads are receiving very high salaries as a result of this purely illusory arrangement whereby they are apparently paid by the firm but are, in fact, paid by the Treasury I say it is very urgent, because at this moment five immense factories are just about coming into production. They were certainly intended to be built for Government operations, and it was intended that Government scales of salary should be paid. That was expected and intended under the late Minister of Supply, but with Lord Beaverbrook the whole policy has been changed, and all these factories are to be handed over to be managed by private concerns.