Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at on 28 May 1941.
Mr Herbert Morrison
, Hackney South
That may be, but the allegations about the treatment of Lady Lucas could have been made in court, and I think it is a little unfair, after counsel for the defence has consented, and I may say willingly consented, to the case not being proceeded with, that subsequently arguments which he could have made in court by insisting on the case proceeding should be made against the police in the House of Commons. I conceive it to be my duty, as the Noble Lord said, to be fair and impartial as between the public and the police, and in particular to see that the police do their duty. But when serious allegations are made against the police, and I have formed the conclusion that the police are right in the difficult situation in which, in my judgment, they were placed by Lady Lucas conducting herself in such a way that she was becoming a public nuisance—I say again, as I said then, that I will defend the police, whoever the person involved may be, whether a lady of title or a working woman. That must be so.
Let me give the House the facts as I have them and, indeed, as I believe them. A soldier was drunk in Argyll Street, not far from the station to which he was being taken. He was arrested. In the ordinary way, if the drunken person can walk, he does so, and if he cannot walk and collapses, the police call a police van or a taxi. At the beginning, the soldier was able to walk, but there came a time when he collapsed and there was some uncertainty whether he would be able to get along by walking for the rest of the distance, which was very short, or whether he would not. In fact, he was helped along, dragged along, for a short distance. Then it became apparent that he could not go on. At this point, his soldier friend called a taxi, and the man was put into it. If that had not happened, the police would have got one. In any case, the distance was short, and I cannot see that there is anything to make a first-class crisis about the fact that a soldier should, for a short distance, be dragged along in the hope and belief that he would be able to walk for the rest of the distance. That is the case of the soldier, and I cannot see, on the face of it, that the police can be held guilty of anything beyond this, that it is a matter of individual judgment whether they should have called a police van or a taxi before then. It is arguable. With great respect, I cannot see that the Noble Lord has a case about which to make a first-class crisis.
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