Oral Answers to Questions — Military Service. – in the House of Commons at on 8 February 1940.
Mr John McGovern
, Glasgow Shettleston
asked the Minister of Labour the number of cases of conscientious objectors heard before the local tribunal at Glasgow; and the numbers, respectively, of complete refusals, non- combatant service ordered, and conditional exemptions granted up to 2nd February, 1940?
Mr Ernest Brown
, Leith
Up to 27th January, the latest date for which figures are available, the Glasgow Local Tribunal heard 465 cases. Of these 167 were removed from the conscientious objectors" register, 91 were ordered non-combatant service in the Forces, and 109 were registered conditionally on their undertaking civilian work.
Mr John McGovern
, Glasgow Shettleston
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a large number of genuine conscientious objectors, many of whom are known to me, are being refused exemption by this tribunal, and can he explain why no representative has been sent to the tribunal who has any understanding of conscientious objectors, and why no representative sympathetic to their point of view is on the tribunal?
Mr Ernest Brown
, Leith
I would not accept either of the three assumptions of the hon. Gentleman. I would point out that the question he did not ask, namely, as to the number of unconditional exceptions, proves my point, for there were 98 such cases.
Mr John McGovern
, Glasgow Shettleston
Out of nearly 500 cases only 98 have been exempted. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the very large number of genuine conscientious objectors who are being turned down and have not been interviewed in a properly sympathetic manner?
Mr Ernest Brown
, Leith
I am not aware of that.
Mr John McGovern
, Glasgow Shettleston
asked the Minister of Labour the number of cases of conscientious objectors heard before the appeal tribunal at Edinburgh; and the numbers, respectively, who were completely refused, granted conditional ex emption, or offered non-combatant service?
Mr Ernest Brown
, Leith
Up to 19th January the Scottish Division of the Appellate Tribunal heard 63 cases. Of these, 27 were removed from the conscientious objectors' register; 11 were registered conditionally on their undertaking civilian work; and 19 were ordered non-combatant service in the Forces.
Mr John McGovern
, Glasgow Shettleston
Again, is not the right hon. Gentleman aware of the considerable number of genuine conscientious objectors who have been turned down by this tribunal? Is he also aware that many of them have not been able to have a friend to state their case and support their evidence? Does the right hon. Gentleman know of the growing discontent at the action of these Tory die-hards who sit en the tribunal?
Mr Ernest Brown
, Leith
I am not aware that any of these assertions are accurate. Again, the question which the hon. Member did not ask, namely, as to the unconditional exemptions, proves that the tribunal took the other view because they revised decisions in six cases.
Mr John McGovern
, Glasgow Shettleston
In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.
Mr John McGovern
, Glasgow Shettleston
asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that Mr. James Jones, 67, Auchenraith Avenue, Hamilton, was before the local tribunal at Glasgow on 24th January, 1940, claiming exemption on moral and religious grounds, and that the reason for his being refused exemption was that he had rot consulted his local priest and taken his advice as to whether or not he should appeal on conscientious grounds; and if he will set aside this decision and order a new hearing of the case?
Mr Ernest Brown
, Leith
I have no power to set aside the decisions of local tribunals or to order cases to be reheard, but applicants have an unrestricted right of appeal to the Appellate Tribunal within 21 days. I understand that Mr. Jones has been supplied with the necessary form of appeal.
Mr John McGovern
, Glasgow Shettleston
Does the Minister not consider it rather disgraceful that when a man appeals as a conscientious objector he should be asked why he did not consult his clergyman and bring him to the Tribunal? Is he aware that this Glasgow Tribunal have already had a Rabbi before them? Is it not against the provisions of the Act that official people should be brought from the Churches—
Mr John McGovern
, Glasgow Shettleston
I want to raise this issue.
Lieut-General Edward Fitzroy
, Daventry
The hon. Member has given notice that he is going to raise the subject on the Adjournment.
Mr John McGovern
, Glasgow Shettleston
This is an entirely different point. I intended to ask the Minister a question on this point.
Lieut-General Edward Fitzroy
, Daventry
It is the same point.
Mr John McGovern
, Glasgow Shettleston
No, Mr. Speaker, it is not the same point. I am asking the Minister to consider—[Interruption]. I do not require any hon. Member to tell me what is a point of Order. There are so many Speakers in this House; it is very difficult. I wanted to ask the Minister whether he is aware that they are bringing official Church people before the Tribunal to certify the official Church attitude, and that has nothing to do with an individual conscientious objector, as an individual is responsible for his own conscience?
Mr Ernest Brown
, Leith
It is the desire of the whole House that an applicant should have the advantage of any friend or other person whom he may care to bring before the Tribunal.
Mr John McGovern
, Glasgow Shettleston
But I am complaining of the action of the Tribunal and not of the individual. I will raise the whole issue later.
Ministers make up the Government and almost all are members of the House of Lords or the House of Commons. There are three main types of Minister. Departmental Ministers are in charge of Government Departments. The Government is divided into different Departments which have responsibilities for different areas. For example the Treasury is in charge of Government spending. Departmental Ministers in the Cabinet are generally called 'Secretary of State' but some have special titles such as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Ministers of State and Junior Ministers assist the ministers in charge of the department. They normally have responsibility for a particular area within the department and are sometimes given a title that reflects this - for example Minister of Transport.
The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
The political party system in the English-speaking world evolved in the 17th century, during the fight over the ascension of James the Second to the Throne. James was a Catholic and a Stuart. Those who argued for Parliamentary supremacy were called Whigs, after a Scottish word whiggamore, meaning "horse-driver," applied to Protestant rebels. It was meant as an insult.
They were opposed by Tories, from the Irish word toraidhe (literally, "pursuer," but commonly applied to highwaymen and cow thieves). It was used — obviously derisively — to refer to those who supported the Crown.
By the mid 1700s, the words Tory and Whig were commonly used to describe two political groupings. Tories supported the Church of England, the Crown, and the country gentry, while Whigs supported the rights of religious dissent and the rising industrial bourgeoisie. In the 19th century, Whigs became Liberals; Tories became Conservatives.
The Speaker is an MP who has been elected to act as Chairman during debates in the House of Commons. He or she is responsible for ensuring that the rules laid down by the House for the carrying out of its business are observed. It is the Speaker who calls MPs to speak, and maintains order in the House. He or she acts as the House's representative in its relations with outside bodies and the other elements of Parliament such as the Lords and the Monarch. The Speaker is also responsible for protecting the interests of minorities in the House. He or she must ensure that the holders of an opinion, however unpopular, are allowed to put across their view without undue obstruction. It is also the Speaker who reprimands, on behalf of the House, an MP brought to the Bar of the House. In the case of disobedience the Speaker can 'name' an MP which results in their suspension from the House for a period. The Speaker must be impartial in all matters. He or she is elected by MPs in the House of Commons but then ceases to be involved in party politics. All sides in the House rely on the Speaker's disinterest. Even after retirement a former Speaker will not take part in political issues. Taking on the office means losing close contact with old colleagues and keeping apart from all groups and interests, even avoiding using the House of Commons dining rooms or bars. The Speaker continues as a Member of Parliament dealing with constituent's letters and problems. By tradition other candidates from the major parties do not contest the Speaker's seat at a General Election. The Speakership dates back to 1377 when Sir Thomas Hungerford was appointed to the role. The title Speaker comes from the fact that the Speaker was the official spokesman of the House of Commons to the Monarch. In the early years of the office, several Speakers suffered violent deaths when they presented unwelcome news to the King. Further information can be obtained from factsheet M2 on the UK Parliament website.
