Loss of His Majesty's Ship "thetis."

Oral Answers to Questions — Military Training. – in the House of Commons at on 5 June 1939.

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Photo of Mr Albert Alexander Mr Albert Alexander , Sheffield, Hillsborough

(by Private Notice)asked the Prime Minister whether he will make a statement with regard to the unfortunate disaster to His Majesty's Ship "Thetis."

Photo of Mr Neville Chamberlain Mr Neville Chamberlain , Birmingham, Edgbaston

Yes, Sir. The following is a full account, so far as the facts are yet known of this lamentable disaster.

On 1st June His Majesty's Submarine "Thetis," a vessel built by Messrs. Cammell Laird, Limited, was carrying out "acceptance trials" in Liverpool Bay. She was accompanied by a tug belonging to the firm and carrying a naval submarine officer. There were on board a full complement of naval personnel under the command of Lieut.-Commander Bolus. Captain Oram, commanding the flotilla, and Engineer-Captain Jackson; the engineer on the staff of Rear-Admiral Submarines, were also on board, together with a party of Admiralty officers and certain contractor's personnel who are normally carried during such acceptance trials. Four other naval officers were on board to gain experience in the handling of a submarine of similar class to their own, now completing by the same firm. The presence of this additional personnel in no way contributed to the sinking of the submarine.

At 1.40 p.m. the "Thetis" dived for three hours, reporting to Rear-Admiral (Submarines) that she was doing so. She failed, however, to reappear at the appointed time, and it is evident that an accident occurred while the vessel was submerged.

So far as can be ascertained, the sinking of the "Thetis" was caused by the flooding of the two forward compartments through one of the bow torpedo tubes. Whilst adjusting trim after diving, the rear door of one of these tubes became open, or was opened, for reasons which cannot yet be fully explained. The men in escaping from the compartment were unable in the time available to close the first watertight door behind them, but the flooding was restricted to the second compartment. The main ballast tanks were immediately emptied by means of compressed air, with the intention of bringing the submarine to the surface, but she continued to dive and took an angle of about 35 degrees by the bow, hitting the bottom in about 130 feet. "Thetis" slowly came to rest on the bottom on an even keel. The impact on the bottom destroyed the submarine signalling apparatus, and the ship was therefore unable to communicate with the surface vessels. The marker buoys were released from the vessel and smoke floats were sent up, but these were not observed by the escorting tug, which by that time had moved some distance from the spot following the expected course of the submarine submerged.

With a view to facilitating the escape of the personnel all possible measures were taken by the crew to lighten the submarine and the stern came to the surface by daylight on 2nd June. "Thetis" had been due to surface at 4.40 p.m. on Thursday, 1st June. The Rear Admiral (Submarines), at Portsmouth, asked the Admiralty for news at 5.15 p.m., but a negative reply was given. The Commander-in-Chief, Plymouth, under whose command subsequent operations fell, was informed that "Thetis" had failed to surface. At 6.20 p.m. Commander-in-Chief, Plymouth, put into operation the prearranged procedure for dealing with such an emergency, and the following vessels were despatched and proceeded at maximum speed to the scene of the accident:

  • His Majesty's ship "Brazen" of the Plymouth Command.
  • Eight destroyers of the 6th Destroyer Flotilla.
  • Six minesweepers of the 1st Mine-sweeping Flotilla.
  • Two submarines of the 2nd Flotilla, Home Fleet.
  • His Majesty's ship "Tedworth."
Concurrently the Admiralty had been in touch with the Air Ministry, in consequence of which a search by aircraft was ordered. At 9.20 359 Squadron of the Royal Air Force sighted the marker buoy which the submarine had released.

His Majesty's ship "Brazen" arrived in the vicinity at 9.6 p.m. and began to search for the missing submarine. On receiving news of a buoy, which appeared to be an indicator buoy, having been sighted by aircraft, she made her course accordingly and continued to search throughout the night. At 7.54 a.m. on 2nd June she reported that she had located the submarine with her stem 18 feet out of the water. On the previous evening the Admiralty and Commander-in-Chief, Plymouth, had been in touch with the Liverpool Salvage Company, Messrs. Cammell Laird and the Mersey Harbour Board with a view to arranging for all necessary appliances to be taken to the scene as quickly as possible in case these should be required.

Shortly after the "Brazen" had located the submarine and had indicated her presence by sound signals the first two survivors came to the surface by means of Davis life-saving apparatus through the special escape hatch provided. One of these was Captain Oram, who with very great gallantry took upon himself, before it was known that the submarine had been located, an escape from the submarine under conditions which were realised to be most dangerous, in order to direct operations. He reported that conditions in the submarine were becoming bad, although all aboard were still alive. At 9.54 a.m. two more men made their escape from the submarine. At 10.30 a.m. the Sixth Destroyer Flotilla arrived and her captain assumed command of the situation.

Since the discovery of the submarine an exceptionally strong spring tide had been, running and it was impossible to undertake diving operations, which can only be managed at slack water. As soon as possible a diver from the "Vigilant" from Liverpool was sent down, but he had the greatest difficulty in working. At 12.40 p.m. an endeavour to lift the stem of the submarine still higher was made by the "Vigilant," with a view to cutting a hole above water as soon as conditions allowed. To have attempted to cut a hole in the then position of the stern would have been to incur a severe risk of flooding, which was considered to be quite unjustifiable. This attempt to raise the stern was unsuccessful since the wires parted. By this time it was high water and the stern submerged and did not again reappear owing to the fact that the submarine had slewed through 150 degrees and was therefore forced downwards by the strong spring tide. It was then decided that no further attempt could be made until 6 p.m. when the tide slackened again. On receipt of the report of a doctor who had attended the survivors and reported on their grave condition from carbon-monoxide poison, a fresh effort was made to raise the stern before slack water, but this was again unsuccessful since th stern of the submarine was becoming less buoyant.

No further escapes had been made by Davis life-saving apparatus. It is believed that three men were killed while trying to escape with the first party and were withdrawn into the submarine, but until further more detailed investigation has been made it is impossible to make any reliable conjecture.

Shortly before low water, at about 7.15 p.m., a wire was passed round the submarine and the camel placed in position, but the submarine swung and the wire slipped off on the turn of the tide, at the same time carrying away the indicator buoy. The submarine was relocated at approximately 11 p.m. By this time deep divers from Metal Industries, Limited, from Scapa Flow, had arrived to assist the Liverpool divers, and round about midnight diving operations were again carried out. In view of a report by a diver that he thought he had heard tapping inside the submarine an effort was made to admit air into that compartment. It was found, however, that this operation would have taken three or four tides and could not be carried through in time to save the lives of those on board "Thetis." The attempt was, therefore, abandoned. It was now clear that there was no further possibility of saving life, and efforts were, therefore, directed to the more lengthy task of salving the vessel.

In view of the magnitude of the disaster it is proposed that a full public inquiry should be held. In the meantime, the usual naval inquiry will take place forthwith, in order to elicit such facts as are at present known and to inquire more particularly into technical aspects. The report of the naval inquiry and the evidence given will be made available to the public inquiry which it is proposed should be held so soon as the submarine has been salved.

Widows and other eligible dependants of the Naval and Admiralty civilian personnel will receive pensions and gratuities in accordance with regulations applicable to those who have lost their lives on service.

It is understood that Messrs. Cammell Laird will be making provision so far as their personnel are concerned.

The House will also have noticed from the Press that the Lord Mayor of London, acting I am sure in accordance with the feeling of the country, has announced that he is starting a fund for public subscription for the benefit of dependants.

In conclusion, I wish to express on behalf of the Government, with whom I am sure the whole House will desire to be associated, our profound sorrow at the loss of so many valuable lives, and our deep sympathy with the relatives who have been bereaved under such distressing circumstances.

Photo of Mr Albert Alexander Mr Albert Alexander , Sheffield, Hillsborough

While associating the whole of the Opposition with the Prime Minister's expression of deep sympathy with all those who have been bereaved by this tragic accident, and while we are very glad to learn that the Government have decided already upon a public inquiry, can the right hon. Gentleman say that that public inquiry will take place almost immediately, or does he anticipate that the salvage of the ship, which he puts as preliminary to the inquiry, will take a considerable time? Would it not be better to satisfy the public mind and the relatives by having the inquiry opened as early as possible?

Photo of Mr Neville Chamberlain Mr Neville Chamberlain , Birmingham, Edgbaston

I should have thought that it was quite impossible for the inquiry to be brought to any satisfactory conclusion until the submarine had been salvaged and conditions inside the vessel had been ascertained. I am afraid that I am not in a position to give the House an estimate as to how long it will take before the submarine can be raised to the surface.

Photo of Mr David Logan Mr David Logan , Liverpool Scotland

I sent a Private Notice question to Mr. Speaker and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty last Friday, at eight minutes past 12, noon, in regard to this matter. I have visited the scene and have been in contact with most people in the city of Liverpool, and there are certain rumours going about. I do not think those rumours are true, but I should like to know whether the Prime Minister could settle once and for all the uncertainty in the minds of some people round about Liverpool. As I have said, I think there is no foundation whatever for the rumours, but there should be no doubt about some of the things that have happened. I want to know (1) whether at Liverpool we had the apparatus to deal with such an emergency in Liverpool Bay? (2) Whether Messrs. Cammel, Laird Co. and the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board were able to render immediate assistance, or had they to await naval supervision? (3) What explanation is there of 103 persons being on board, when the crew complement is about 57? In view of the necessity for oxygen and the emergency that arose, is not this a rather serious matter? My fourth and last question has been answered by the Prime Minister. I am very thankful that a public inquiry is to be held.

Photo of Mr Neville Chamberlain Mr Neville Chamberlain , Birmingham, Edgbaston

I think the statement that I have made has answered the question about the number of persons on board the vessel. In regard to the other points, I cannot give an answer, and the hon. Member had perhaps better await the inquiry.

Photo of Mr David Logan Mr David Logan , Liverpool Scotland

Was it 19 hours before the submarine was located? A tug accompanied the ship on its trial trip, but when the submarine went below nothing was known. Was there no connection with the tug accompanying a submarine on a trial trip in Liverpool Bay, on a calm day? When the buoy came up, why was there no telephone communication between the buoy and the '' Thetis ''?

Photo of Mr Neville Chamberlain Mr Neville Chamberlain , Birmingham, Edgbaston

If the hon. Member will read the statement I have made he will see that some of the questions that he has asked have been answered. I have said that the impact of the vessel on the floor of the sea destroyed the signalling apparatus which in normal cases is used.

Colonel Sandeman Allen:

Is the Prime Minister aware that the management and the employés of Messrs. Cammell, Laird and Company will most heartily welcome a public inquiry in this matter?

Photo of Mr Arthur Greenwood Mr Arthur Greenwood , Wakefield

When will the Prime Minister be in a position to state the personnel of the committee of inquiry?

Photo of Mr Neville Chamberlain Mr Neville Chamberlain , Birmingham, Edgbaston

I cannot say exactly, but the matter is under active consideration, and it will be announced very soon.

Photo of Mr Reginald Fletcher Mr Reginald Fletcher , Nuneaton

Is any Admiralty procedure laid down regarding the presence of naval vessels, salvage vessels and tugs when a submarine is undergoing acceptance trials? If such procedure is laid down, was it fully observed and carried out on this occasion?

Photo of Mr Duff Cooper Mr Duff Cooper , Westminster St George's

Is it not highly desirable that there should be no more questions at this point about this most distressing event?

Photo of Commander Sir Archibald Southby Commander Sir Archibald Southby , Epsom

Can the Prime Minister give the House any information regarding the condition of the survivors of this terrible accident, and can he give an expression of appreciation of the gallant action of Captain Oram?

Photo of Mr Reginald Fletcher Mr Reginald Fletcher , Nuneaton

May I have an answer to my question?

Photo of Mr Neville Chamberlain Mr Neville Chamberlain , Birmingham, Edgbaston

A question of the kind put by the hon. and gallant Member must be put down before I can answer it.

Mr. Davidson:

I should like to ask a question, not in criticism but with a view to preventing or assisting to prevent any future cases of the kind. May I ask whether the Government, in view of this terrible disaster, are now considering the employment of other apparatus, such as that used in connection with the American submarine accident and other submarine accidents?

Photo of Mr Neville Chamberlain Mr Neville Chamberlain , Birmingham, Edgbaston

I think all these questions had better await the inquiry, when the information will be available. The answer to the question put by my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Epsom (Sir A. Southby) is that one of the survivors is in hospital and the others, so far as I know, are going on as well as can be expected.