Orders of the Day — Supply.

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at on 19 July 1937.

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Photo of Mr Winston Churchill Mr Winston Churchill , Epping

The figure was somewhat picturesque. It arises from the idea of a large and heavy body responding rhythmically to the movement of the waves. To go on like that would be exactly the same as letting capital ships anchor over a minefield, of which some foreign Power on shore held the key. Some finger—Bolshevik, Anarchist, Nazi, Fascist, I know not which, for the purpose of which I care not—might press the electric button, and an event might occur which might seriously alter the balance of sea-power throughout the world. Let hon. Members mark this, if such an event did happen, it would not be the end, but only the beginning of a tragic chapter in human history.

Is this not the time to raise this question very directly with General Franco, who controls this area at the present time? Will any advantage be gained by waiting for a year, when perhaps he may be master of practically all Spain—[Interruption]. The hon. Member for West Fife (Mr. Gallacher) interrupts me. We always treat him with very great consideration, because he is a unique specimen; he represents the great Communist theory in this House, and at the same time he is perfectly tame and harmless, and he is, I may say, very well broken to the House. I wish, however, to ask a serious question: Will any advantage be gained by waiting for a year, when General Franco will be either master of Spain or, in the hazards of war, will have passed away?

Now is the time, while the Spanish civil war hangs in the balance, to talk to him about these cannons. Are they perhaps the price he has had to pay for help he has received from this Power or from that Power? I think that is a fair question. Evidently this is a period when he is much more likely to meet our reasonable wishes than later on. Our interests ought not to suffer from our not having duly accredited agents both at Valencia and Salamanca. We may lose heavily in all sorts of ways if, out of a kind of political fastidiousness, we declare ourselves to be following a policy of boycott of any powerful forces in the world which have it in their power to injure us or to help us. Therefore, it is of no use talking about a gang of mutinous generals or a crowd of ferocious Bolsheviks. We have got to watch our British interests in both camps from day to day, and we have got to make sure that our agents have the best chance of having their representations earnestly considered.

Under the Treaty of Utrecht, I believe, we have legal rights to the immunity of the Bay of Algeciras, provided we also forbid any enemy of Spain access to that Bay. There were also conversations on the subject, I remember, in 1901, which left matters in what I can only call a posture of tacit indetermination. But surely, we should not regard the mounting of these enormous guns, to menace Gibraltar or to obstruct the Straits, as dependent upon the interpretation of ancient treaties. It is a question of good neighbourliness and friendly behaviour of one Power to another. For instance, suppose the French—I take that Power because I know I shall give no offence—mounted batteries of great cannons at Boulogne and Calais which could shell London. They have a perfect right to do so; there is no treaty ground on which we could reproach them; but all the same, I am quite clear that the fact would lead to an entire alteration of our relations with the French Republic. They would be the first to admit that that would be so.

This is the aspect which I hope my right hon. Friend will put to General Franco with the utmost clarity and in the best possible manner. It is not any use our sending someone there who goes in by himself to this shameful scene and says, "Now then, you mutinous General, what about these guns at Gibraltar? Of course, we are expecting and hoping that you will soon be defeated in order that the larger quarrel between the Stalin Communists and the P.O.U.M., or Trotsky Communists, may be fought out and may clear the way for that even larger dispute which lies for the world to decide between Communists and Anarchists; but meanwhile, young fellow my lad, as you are here, will you kindly give us satisfaction in the matter of these guns? "I am sure that my right hon. Friend, with his engaging manners and the powers of personal captivation which animate his diplomacy, will find better methods than that of putting that particular issue in those particular quarters, but that it should be put, and put at once, I have absolutely no doubt, unless the Government are in a position to remove altogether the alarming facts which I have ventured to recite.

There is one other serious matter to which I wish to refer before I sit down. I wish to address to the Foreign Secretary a question on this other matter which seems to me to touch our security. Foreigners in this country have hitherto come here as individuals. They have dwelt among us under freedom and the protection of our laws. But during the last two or three years we have seen a development which has recently gained considerable proportions. We are already familiar with the Communist movement and propaganda, and have prepared ourselves by our broad political institutions and also by necessary police measures to deal effectively with that. But now I am told—and here again I am asking for information—that all Germans and Italians living abroad are bound up in regular, national, political organisations, Nazi or Fascist. There may be 35,000 or 40,000 Germans or Italians in this country at any given moment, and all of them are woven together by their respective Governments, under severe discipline. They have to report at frequent intervals to regular centres where they receive instructions as to what they should observe, and what language they should hold in moving about among our population, and what they should do in case of emergency. Actually a Nazi Minister and Department have been set up within the present year in Berlin to direct and concert the action of Nazi Germans living abroad. Nothing like this has ever been seen before and I ask the Foreign Secretary whether he considers that the time has now come or is approaching, when, in conjunction with the Home Office, on whom the administrative action would fall this matter should not be dealt with, both by representations abroad and if necessary by regulations at home.

I apologise for having pressed these matters which are more specific than the general scope of the Debate would seem to encourage. I have this feeling, that we and the nations who feel with us and our institutions, are gradually gathering strength and confidence. I feel that Parliament men and Parliamentary countries should stand together against the dangers from either side and should be vigilant in guarding their interests. I always take comfort from the rugged words of Pym when he said: None have gone about to break Parliaments but that Parliaments have broken them. Let the people of this country which was the birth-place and is still the stronghold of free Parliamentary government set an example to other countries by the vigilance and attention with which we secure the permanence of our institutions.