Orders of the Day — Ministry of Health.

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at on 17 July 1935.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Mr Alan Chorlton Mr Alan Chorlton , Manchester Platting

The number of hon. Members who wish to speak makes it desirable for me to restrict my remarks to the smallest possible compass within the wide ambit of the activities of this Ministry. I would like to address myself on this occasion to what is arising out of slum clearance, the various difficulties that have arisen and the comparative removals or otherwise effected by the Housing Acts. I will, however, stick more closely to a subject that I know more about, and that is the question of water supplies. I am sorry that neither the Minister nor the Parliamentary Secretary is here to take notes of some of the points that I would like to put. I am most anxious to discover the amount of progress that they are making in the administration of the water policy of the country. When the late drought was on, we had many debates, and many important points were raised periodically, nearly always with the assurance that affairs were nothing like so bad as had been pictured and as we had stated in this House. Lately an important official has been giving evidence, and I read that he has said: It is not generally realised how serious was the drought last year. That is said after all these months of being reassured on so many occasions that we were exaggerating the state of affairs. Now it is admitted, though not in this House, how bad affairs were. I want to find out in more detail what steps are being taken. I know, of course, that there is a large grant for the purposes of assisting rural water supplies. That is dealt with in the Estimates, I think, but I should like to ask if the figure of £250,000 which is given bears any relation to the £1,000,000, or whether it is in addition to it. In the carrying out of the various schemes, we were assured and reassured that the Ministry had taken special steps, by increasing their staffs and by various other means, to afford the largest amount of technical assistance that they could, but when I look into the Estimates again, at the item "engineering inspectors," who are those concerned, I believe, with this particular work, I find that last year, in 1934, there were 33 inspectors and this year, 1935, the estimate is for only 34 inspectors. Is the activity of the Department to be represented by only one additional inspector? It is probable—at any rate, I hope it is so—that this important part of the health of the nation is being dealt with more adequately than is represented by one additional inspector.

Much has been said about the health of the nation, but there is a danger of overlooking the fact that a pure water supply is of the first importance to good health, and, therefore, we should never lose sight of it in anything that we are doing. I want to ask next what is the progress made with the setting up of the advisory committees, some of which have been in existence for quite a long time and others quite a short time, whether it is progressing at a rate that we can reasonably expect. There seems to have been a lull in the setting up of these committees, and if it was considered the right thing to do to get all the authorities concerned to come into more general, common practice within their own localities, why has this rate slowed up, if such be the case? Is it because these advisory committees have been found in practice not to be as effective as they should have been and in fact to be merely talking bodies, with no real effect afterwards on the policy of the various constituent authorities represented upon them?

May I ask next, with regard to what are called the consulting committees, those committees which are supposed to join up the activities, as it were, of other advisory committees and reduce them to a common level, what progress has taken place? We have in our part of the world two advisory committees, but the consulting committee which was proposed to join the two in their work has not been set up. What is the reason? I have asked one or two questions about it, but I have never had a satisfactory reply. Has the Minister considered the appointment of a further committee which would join up the activities of two districts, in this case South Lancashire and the West Riding of Yorkshire? Those districts and others near obtain the bulk of their water from the Pennines, and the policy of all those who draw the water from that quarter ought to be co-ordinated and made in agreement one with the other. Will the Minister consider setting up a joint committee which will have that effect in practice? I want to refer to some evidence given by the same gentleman in which he estimated the amount of water required as 20 to 30 gallons per head in urban areas, and 15 to 20 in rural areas. I think that the former is a really low estimate, because the consumption of the towns is above 30, while in many rural areas it is less than the 15 to 20 gallons mentioned.

Another authority, when estimating the future consumption of water, put the figure at 80 gallons per head. That is a figure for the future, upon which the water policy of the country ought to be formulated. I regret to say that we are continually finding that no attention is paid to this future policy. If attention is paid to it, the amount and direction of the attention is never disclosed to us. If we take the figure at 80 gallons, the total figure for this district, assuming 12,000,000 population in future, would be over three times the present capacity. Two new reservoirs that are being constructed will increase the capacity 50 per cent. Then it is said that they are not making provision for the future to the extent that that particular authority suggested it should be. Objections can be raised to this higher figure, but there are now so many people concerned who can reasonably anticipate the future, and so many towns which use over 80 gallons per head at the present time, that it seems to me risky to use the figure of 30 gallons which was mentioned in evidence before the committee which is now sitting. I want to ask whether the water policy of the Department ends with the setting up of the survey committee which is now determining the actual supplies in the country, although not their allocation, and the setting up of the committee which has just begun to take evidence. Is the Department going to wait until the new committee has reported on the evidence it has received?

There is so much evidence in existence that it will be a great pity if nothing further in the way of a development policy is brought forward until this committee has reported. I have quoted before in the House the findings of the 1920 interim report of the Board of Trade Committee on Water Supply, and I do not want to quote it again. There is so much evidence as to the position of water supplies that we should have something more than the day-to-day policy which is all I can discover from the utterances of those concerned. With regard to rural supplies, does the assistance which has been given up to now indicate the progress that the Department hope to get? Are we getting development as rapidly as we should do? I would like again to press the need for inter-connection of the existing water authorities' supply mains. By interconnecting the mains we make, as it were, a common supply, and if we go in for reserve supplies wherever they are—in central Wales or the Lake District—these reserve supplies, tapped into the network of connected mains, will always prove a reserve for any part of the country. It is strange, after all the rebuffs some us have had in speaking on this subject to be told that we ought to be planning ahead. We have been trying to get the Ministry to plan ahead for all these months. If it has been planning ahead, it has kept it very secret indeed, and I hope that the Minister will tell us to-night a little more of what he proposes to do.