Considered in Committee [TENTH DAY—Progress, 13th March],

[Sir DENNIS HERBERT in the Chair.]

3.30 p.m.

I have to inform the Committee of what took place at the recent meeting of the small committee of Members, representative of the various groups in the House of Commons. Before doing so, perhaps I ought to mention where we stand now as to the consideration of this Bill. The question immediately before the Committee is "That Clause 52, as amended, stand part of the Bill," and I hope that that may go through possibly without any further talk.

May I ask—

rose—

Perhaps both hon. Members will wait until I have completed my statement. I was merely mentioning that fact as a preliminary, and I did not intend to indicate that I was about to put that Question. The committee to which I have referred understands that it is the desire of certain hon. Members to move to report Progress in order to give an opportunity for the consideration of matters connected with the white paper issued by the Government on Monday. If that Motion be made, it will be accepted by the Chair, and it is estimated that the discussion on that Motion should occupy between two and three hours but should not exceed three hours. We shall then come to Clauses 54, 55, and 56 on which there are no Amendments except formal Amendments to make those Clauses correspond with Amendments which have already been made. Those Clauses therefore ought only to take a very short time unless possibly there is some discussion on one of them on the question "That the Clause stand part of the Bill." That would bring us to Clauses 56, 57 and 58 which deal with the police. The committee understood that it was the desire of a number of hon. Members to have as wide a discussion as possible on the question of how the police were to be dealt with under the Bill, and it was suggested that a general discussion of that kind should take place on a Motion for the postponement of those three Clauses. I am sorry to say that I should find very great difficulty in allowing sufficient scope for debating that matter on a Motion to postpone the Clauses, but there is now on the Order Paper an Amendment, or, strictly speaking, three Amendments all forming one in the name of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Epping (Mr. Churchill) and two other hon. Members—in Clause 56, page 35, line 39, to leave out "proposed," and to insert "directed by the Governor-General"; in page 36, line 2, after "military," to insert "the Governor shall carry out such direction and in doing so" and in page 36, line 3, to leave out from "respect," to the end of the Clause, and to add "thereto so far as such direction permits"—which in my opinion will give sufficient scope for a discussion generally of the proposal in the Bill regarding the police. These proposals are contained to some extent in Clauses which have already been passed and also in those Clauses to which we are now coming, and in various places in later Clauses and in the Schedules. The committee considered therefore that it would be for the general convenience that there should be a Debate of considerable scope if that could be arranged and I think this can be done on the Amendments I have mentioned, and when that Debate has taken place it is to be hoped that the Amendments to Clauses 56, 57 and 58 will not take so long as they would have taken otherwise. It is estimated that the discussion on the police might also occupy from two to three hours.

On the assumption, therefore, that we dispose of these two rather longer discussions to-day, it is considered that we ought to get to the end of Clause 98, that is the end of Part IV of the Bill, and thus complete the second compartment of the Bill at our next Sitting. To-morrow was to have been another Committee day on the Bill, but now the Committee stage is to be continued on Friday instead of to-morrow. I think that even the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Epping will on this occasion not think that I am too sanguine if I express the hope that on Friday we may get to the end of Clause 98. It is, of course, possible that we may get further to-night than I have indicated. That depends on the length of time occupied by those discussions to which I have referred, but with the exception of about three or four original Clauses on which there are a number of Amendments and on which discussion will be required, the great bulk of these Clauses right up to Clause 98 are purely repetition, and I hope that for the most part they will be disposed of with comparatively little discussion.

3.37 p.m.

May I say, Sir Dennis, since you have referred to me, that I think the outline of business which you have given is highly convenient and thoroughly in accord with the general arrangement under which this great Measure is being discussed. We are to have the opportunity of two debates, on large questions, with great latitude, to-day, and then on Friday we are to dispose of everything up to the end of Part IV of the Bill. It will be rapid legislation, but in my opinion not unfair legislation. The Government have given appropriate time, and the various Oppositions have all agreed that progress should be made. By Friday next if we accomplish what we are setting before ourselves, we shall be only two days over the time which was agreed upon in the original plan. Four days, it will be remembered, were held in reserve, and therefore we shall only have used up two of the spare days. I think that fact ought to be registered as an exceedingly satisfactory milestone in the working of this policy up to date.

This Clause deals with the special responsibilities of the Governor—

Does the right hon. and gallant Gentleman rise to ask a question on my statement?

No, Sir.

I would point out that I have put nothing to the Committee as yet, and that when we reported Progress on the Question, "That Clause 52, as amended, stand part of the Bill," the hon. Member for Broxtowe (Mr. Cocks) was in possession of the Committee