Orders of the Day — Armaments.

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at on 30 July 1934.

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Captain GUEST:

So many hon. Members are anxious to speak that I will contract my remarks to the narrowest margin. The Lord President of the Council covered so wide a field that I do not think it will be out of place to dwell more particularly on the programme of air expansion which he announced a few days ago and which is reaffirmed in his statement to-day. There are one or two points which I and some of my hon. Friends want to raise which, I hope, will receive a reply from the Under-Secretary of State for Air, if not to-night, on some other occasion. I welcome this pronouncement of expansion, because I have a great belief in the Government, and I believe that underlying the proposals are both determination and elasticity. I am no more desirous than anybody else of spending the taxpayers' money unnecessarily, nor am I desirous of seeing Britain engaged in a race of armaments. I welcome this programme as being capable of acceleration and retardation. I only hope that the Government of the day in two years' time will bear in mind that the programme may have to be accelerated or may be allowed to take a slower speed. I am glad for another reason that the programme has been announced, for I think it will have a helpful effect on German mentality in the higher command. It will point out to them the wisdom of joining an air convention under which air armaments and the use of aircraft may be limited. It may have that effect, and if it has it will be a very good effect indeed.

I am, however, frightened by a sentence used by the Under-Secretary of State for Air in a speech last night, because it makes me think that the margin of safety is a very small one. He stated that there was no time to waste. That must be either an encouraging statement or an alarming statement. If the calculation as to the time of possible danger is that it is near at hand I can only take it as an alarming statement. There is a side of this discussion which was dwelt upon by my right hon. Friend the Member for Epping (Mr. Churchill), and I would like to add to it a little. It is our business on the Air Committee to make a close study of the relative strengths of countries and to be as well informed as it is humanly possible to be of facts and figures. Civil aviation, I submit, is inextricably wrapped up with military aviation: and the way in which it is inextricably interwoven in Germany is an example of how important it is for a nation, and this nation in particular, to realise that the foundation of all military aviation is civil. That would give me too big a subject to develop this afternoon; but I believe that a civil aviation Debate will take place to-morrow, and therefore I will not waste the time of the House now.

As the strength or otherwise of German aviation has been referred to, I would like to add something to what has been said. My right hon. Friend the Member for Darwen (Sir H. Samuel), in a very pertinent speech, indicated that if he were satisfied that Germany, the potential enemy of this country, were really stronger than Great Britain, he would not adopt the attitude of criticism which he took up in his speech this afternoon. We can, as best we are able, assure him that it is the greatest mistake to imagine that German aviation is not in a very advanced state. Whether or not Germany possesses military squadrons of exactly the same nature as other European countries possess is hard for us to say, but we have reason to believe and reason to fear that it is true; but even if it be not true, I wish the right hon. Member for Darwen to notice the increase of civil aviation in Germany, which can be seen by anyone who takes the trouble to visit that country. The number of civil aircraft which are capable of immediate conversion number over 1,800. The number of pilots they possess to-day is more than 3,000, as well able to fly military machines as any of the pilots in any other country. We possess, at the present minute, about 1,500 war pilots and a reserve of about 1,000. So it will be seen that on the basis of pilots alone there is very little difference between the strength of the two countries even to-day. The rapidity with which the great factories in Germany can turn out aeroplanes is known to everybody who has ever visited that great country, and that capacity for turning out aeroplanes, if the order were once given, has been quoted at something like 1,000 a month.

Gliding has been referred to. In my opinion, gliding has not been studied as profitably as it should have been in this country. It is the preliminary step to making a country air-minded. The man who has the courage, in a little, light ship such as a glider is, with no engine to rely upon, to find his way happily through the clouds and currents of the sky, is surely much better raw material for making into a pilot than the man who has never left the ground. Unfortunately, I misheard what my right hon. Friend said in connection with the figures of gliding clubs in Germany and in this country. The gliding certificates, Class A, obtained in Germany number 10,000 to-day; similar Class A licences in England number 350. B licences, which I presume are of not so high a value, number 915 in Germany and 78 in England. I only quote those figures to show that in Germany, at any rate, those who control civil aviation are of opinion that the way to learn to use the air is to get into it. When once they have broken the ice and obtained security, as these people have, they become potential war pilots very soon indeed. For another proof that the right hon. Member for Darwen has cause to fear the relative strength of Germany and ourselves one might look to the question of how much money Germany is spending. She is spending it nominally on civil aviation, but we have tred to show that that is really war aviation in very thin disguise. Germany spent last year 177,000,000 marks, and has budgeted this year for 210,000,000 marks, which, translated into pounds, is £17,000,000. If they can put that amount of money, just the same as we have been spending here on our military side, into a camouflaged civil aviation it does not look as though they are wasting so much time.

I pass rapidly from that to say a word or two on the skeleton programme which has been announced to us. It comes out in the "Times" to-day in, I think, a very thin and unsatisfactory manner. I almost wish it had not been published at all, because it may well be misleading. If three subjects, aerodromes, personnel and research, are concentrated upon and seriously undertaken, I feel big strides have been taken towards the ultimate object which the Government have in view. I do not propose to waste the time of the House on the details of aerodromes or of personnel, because my hon. and gallant Friend who made so excellent a maiden speech has dealt with that subject. All I say in conclusion is that the phrase "no time to waste" must be either restated in some different form, or we must be given an assurance that there really is no immediate fear, for at the present time the average man in the street would be left wondering how to translate those words into a thought which is either satisfying or alarming.