Department of Health for Scotland.

Part of Civil Estimates and Supplementary Estimate, 1934. – in the House of Commons at on 18 July 1934.

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Photo of Mr John McGovern Mr John McGovern , Glasgow Shettleston

I am rather sorry to be the first to strike a discordant note, with perhaps the exception of the hon. Member for Govan (Mr. Maclean), after the speeches which have been made congratulating the Secretary of State and the Under-Secretary in connection with the progress which has been made in relation to housing. Hon. Members can find means for congratulation if they are anxious to overlook the facts which exist in our midst and to take part in a sort of pleasant Sunday afternoon meeting where they pat one another on the back and tell each other how well they are doing, and then, on going outside, realise that they have been acting the hypocrite inside the assembly and saying that which is not true. I refuse to accept the point of view which is always maintained in this House when a Minister gets up at that Box and attempts to contrast the figures of the previous year with those of the present year. He says, "We have surpassed the figure of last year by 200," and then proceeds to congratulate himself and his Government on what has been achieved. If hon. Members were only brought into direct touch and relationship with the houses which are tolerated in our midst, they would not congratulate Ministers in this House and express satisfaction at the progress which has been made. I make that statement with regard to any Government. No satisfactory progress has been made in connection with housing. The hon. Member for South Edinburgh (Sir S. Chapman) said that 50 years ago he heard an eminent statesman speak in the same spirit as has been in evidence at that Box to-day. If progress in the next 50 years be as rapid as that during the 50 years of which he spoke, I am sure that people living 50 years hence will have no reason to congratulate themselves upon the progress made.

The attitude of mind of the people in this country is amazing. I have never been able to understand it. The whole nation just now has been aroused by what is called a trunk murder. A man has committed a "trunk murder." He has destroyed a human life, and the whole nation is roused to a spirit of frenzy and passion, and, I believe, rightly so. I do not attempt to say that that is a wrong thing. When you contrast the fact that an individual is being pursued with the whole power and authority of the law and the nation, with the power of the Press of the country offering large monetary inducements to people to divulge information which may lead to the arrest or conviction of the person responsible for that murder, with the fact that we are allowing to exist slums which are destroying the lives of children by tens of thousands, and allowing people to draw money from those slums instead of prosecuting them, I cannot understand the attitude of mind and the self-satisfaction which exist in this country.

When we require. money for the Air Force, as we shall do shortly, we get it without question because of the overwhelming number of Government supporters in this House. When we want money for military and naval escapades, we get it, because it is for the purpose of defending the selfish bondholding interests of the ruling classes of the country. The Noble Lord the Member for Perth (Lord Scone) smiles. He has a good stake in the country and can afford to smile. When money is required to defend the interests of these people it is readily forthcoming. But when money is wanted in order to defend the life and limb of the people who have contributed their all and have helped to create the wealth which others enjoy, it is given in a niggardly, cheeseparing fashion. Every penny is scrutinised and examined and put under a miscroscope before it is allowed to go through.

The way to deal with the housing problem is to appoint a Minister and to say to him, "Your job, without any restrictions by the slum landlords or landowners, is to re-house the overcrowded population and the slum dwellers of the country, irrespective of the cost or the inconvenience. If in five or ten years you cannot show us that you have re-housed the whole of the overcrowded and slum population of this country, you will be led out and placed against a wall to face a firing squad. You will pay the penalty because of your lack of ability in that direction." That is the way to deal with the housing problem. You should not give Ministers the opportunity of going down and meeting local authorities, and having luncheon or tea with the Lord Provost and a nice round-table talk about what they are prepared to do. I am not saying this of the present Secretary of State, but of all people in these positions. They go down generally to meet the people who are anxious to draw money from slums, or who have bonds in slums or some special selfish interest in the continuance of slums in our cities. I would not allow local authorities or the sanitary and health departments to have the last word with regard to the houses which require to be destroyed. The hon. Member for North Aberdeen (Mr. Burnett) came direct to the point when he said that we should not schedule houses for demolition before we bad provided the houses in which to re-house the people. That is exactly the condition that has kept us where we are to-day. If we had said to the local authority, "Your duty is to provide 30,000 houses in five years' time, and if you do not do it we will put up the houses and charge you with the cost in your area," we should have got further than we have done to-day.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned flying squads rushing round the country seeing to the erection of houses. What is wanted to work in co-operation with a flying squad is a bombing squad—that is where the Air Force is required—to go round and, after warning tenants in the slum areas, bomb those areas and destroy them as being a danger to the life of the people of the country. would appoint a medical man who under the supervision of the Scottish Office, should go round independently of local authorities and schedule for demolition houses in which it is not fit for human beings to live. We find that the health department of the local authority acts in conjunction and co-operation with the housing committee. A responsible man in Glasgow said to me, "We cannot condemn. We agree that a large number of the houses are not fit for human habitation, but we cannot condemn them because there are no houses in which to accommodate the people."

Certain interests in the local authorities are anxious that no houses should be built at all because they would compete with the slum type of house in which they are interested. There are two sections even in the Tory party on the local administrative authority. There are the contracting elements who want houses built so long as they obtain the contract for the building of them, and there are those who own the slums and do not want new houses because the people would then leave their slums and go into better houses. There is a tug-of-war between these sections. It used to be a joke in Glasgow that the convenor on the Housing Committee was a building contractor, and that there was a. master plumber, a master glazier, a master joiner, a master painter, and somebody else representing paints and oils, and slates, and, in fact every type of thing one could mention. They were people, if one cared to say it, who were more anxious to direct attention to their selfish interests than they were to the interests of the community.

The Under-Secretary has said that the number of houses scheduled for demolition as unfit for habitation was 61,000 for the whole of Scotland. I could almost find that number in Glasgow alone. could show the Secretary of State individual houses, and say to him, "What do you think of that?" and I believe that he would say without hesitation, "It ought not to be tolerated in a civilised community." It is simply throwing dust in the eyes of the Committee when the Department attempts to make us believe that 61,000 houses are all that are required. I have sent a. letter to-day to the housing department in Glasgow dealing with a case of overcrowding in which there are 14 people living in a two-roomed house. The man in question has had his application before the authorities for a considerable period, but overcrowding has not been dealt with. It is no good the Minister standing at that Box and saying, "We had an Act last year, but it has failed, and we think that something else will have to be done in the Autumn or next Summer."

I do not care what kind of Government tackles this question. No Government in recent times has had greater authority than the present Government to deal with these problems because they have the greatest majority ever experienced by any Government. Their supporters are prepared with lamblike docility to accept anything if the Government only say that it is a proper and necessary thing for the good of the nation. If the work were entrusted to me, and I was told, "You have 10 years in which to do the job, and we will give you complete liberty to go ahead with the rehousing of the whole of the overcrowded and slum population," I would stake my life on the completion of the task. It can be carried through, but it cannot be carried through merely by saying that something is being done year after year to meet the problem. I have only been in this House four years, but year after year I have heard the same type of speeches, with hon. Members always getting up and patting the Minister on the back and telling him that he is a good fellow and is doing a great work.

The hon. Member for North Aberdeen spoke of the offences which occur in society, of which nobody knows better than the legal Members of this House. The hon. Member for Stirling and Falkirk (Mr. J. Reid) and the hon. and learned Member for Camlachie (Mr. Stevenson) and others attend the courts more regularly than ever I can hope to do, but I have been a sufficient number of times to be convinced that a great deal of the immorality in society to-day arises from the fact that there is no separate accommodation for the male members of the household. I know of one case where five people slept in one bed, all of them adults. The stepdaughter gave birth to a child. All these people had to sleep in one bed. It is not the father who is responsible but society that is responsible for what is going on, and you are tolerating it. You have the power and the authority. These helpless people cannot help themselves. They are living under these terrible conditions. You have been given the authority and the power to deal with the housing problem, but each successive Government has failed to deal with it in a proper manner.

I would ask hon. Members to recollect the great drive that there was during the War to destroy life. If only 50 per cent. of that drive were put into the saving of human life, we should accomplish something in our day and generation. I urge the Minister not to be carried away by the statement that there has been a great work accomplished. You have not touched the fringe of the problem. The 1913 houses are now 21 years old. There is a continual increase in the population which has to be dealt with. Overcrowding and the slums have to be dealt with. The Government come along and say, "We have built something like 20,000 houses, and we congratulate ourselves that we are doing a great job." I do not think that they are doing a great job. It is no satisfaction to me to hear the Minister say that they have built 250 more houses this year than last year. I have never been able to get any satisfaction out of compliments of that kind. Each successive Minister "Should be tested, just as a tradesman is tested by an ordinary employer. The tradesman is expected to do his best in his job. If he is not an efficient tradesman, he is thrown out, without consideration of the consequences. I would apply the same test to the Minister who is responsible for housing. I would give the Minister power, or I would give some man authority to deal with housing. I would say: "It is your job to rehouse the slum population and the overcrowded population. I will give you 10 years, if you like." The penalty on that housing director if he failed to accomplish the job would be the firing squad.

I could comment on many other things in the report, but I agree that the housing problem is of the most tremendous importance to the people. I am not prepared to argue that those who are providing houses, 5,000 or 6,000 houses, for selling, are not meeting a certain demand; they are. I give them credit for everything that is being accomplished. We were criticised during the Kilmarnock election. It was said that the Independent Labour party members had the rents fixed too low and that no houses would be built. Our answer is not that the rent was fixed too low but that the subsidy was too low. If the subsidy had been higher we could have given to many thousands of people the satisfaction and guarantee of a home. Mankind requires a home. It is all very well for the hon. Member for North Aberdeen to talk about tents. Those who have built mansions and palaces for the rich to live in cannot to-day get houses to live in. They create wealth. We talk in this House about doing something for the poorer classes. I say to hon. Members, the poorer classes have housed you. Surely, they are entitled to be housed themselves.

I appeal to the Secretary of State and the Under-Secretary, who have shown initiative and drive, to apply their minds to the housing problem and to remember that there are tens of thousands of children who are being destroyed every year for lack of a decent house to live in, for lack of sun and air. Children go to school with their minds dulled, unable to do the task allotted to them because they have not had proper rest and sleep in a foul, deadly-laden atmosphere. I ask the Minister to remember that he has the power, and if he has the drive he can provide houses for people. Scotland is looking to the Scottish Office to get a drive on, to arise from its lethargy and to recognise that they have a public conscience behind them. For 20 or 30 years the job was to arouse the spirit of the nation to a conscious interest in housing. That spirit has been aroused and Ministers have only to get into harness and to get on with the job. I appeal to them to get on with the work of rehousing the population and giving some comfort to the miserable thousands who to-day are living under conditions which are not fit for the brute beasts of the field.