Ministry of Health.

Part of Orders of the Day — Supply. – in the House of Commons at on 3 July 1934.

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Photo of Mr Edward Salt Mr Edward Salt , Birmingham, Yardley

In the Debate following the Minister's opening statement there was considerable criticism of the 1933 Act. The right hon. Gentleman the Member for Wakefield (Mr. Greenwood) particularly stressed it and said the Act was a fiasco. Surely as a previous Minister of Health he will realise that the moment you pass an Act affecting housing you cannot expect to see results. The hon. Member for the English Universities (Miss Rathbone) gave an example from the city of Liverpool, which to me suggests that Liverpool is in a different position to my own city of Birmingham or that her figures, which are usually correct, were not correct in this case. I have obtained official figures as regards Birmingham and I find that considerable use is being made of the 1933 Act. About 2,000 houses are being built on one estate, the Perry Hall Estate, and in many other parts of Birmingham houses are being built by various enterprises. I heard only last week of definite arrangements with a building society to put up no less than 5,000 houses under this Statute and there are 300 houses to be built on the High-field Estate, 150 in another area and 500 in a third. In fact, there is a total of nearly 10,000 houses now being built or which will be in course of construction in the near future. If that rate were followed all over the country, we should have about 400,000 houses being built and, therefore, we can look forward to the Act being of real service.

Another criticism is that the Act is not turning out houses to let. I think the effect of the Act will be to assist in this direction. On inquiry I find that the estate department of Birmingham are having between 25 and 30 houses thrown on their hands per week because the occupants of municipal houses are going into new houses built under the 1933 Act. We are, therefore, getting from 1,300 to 1,500 houses to let through that process alone, and this process is likely to be extended as the number of houses are built. I think we shall find that the Minister has been right in his view that the Act will be of great service. I am greatly encouraged by the way in which he allowed criticism to be made in regard to slum clearance. There was constant criticism in this House and questions were asked as to how many houses were being demolished, and then suddenly we had the White Paper which gave the information that about 264,000 houses had been scheduled. It was said that this was only on paper and that it was doubtful whether it would mature, but no one who has studied what is taking place would be of that opinion, and we can rest assured that the whole of the number will be demolished and other houses built in their place by the time specified. In Birmingham we gave in the first place a number of rather under 5,000 houses, which was afterwards increased to 10,000, and the same thing has been taking place in many parts of the country. It is difficult for local authorities, with the best will in the world, to be able to schedule straight away houses which they would like to have replaced. I feel that the Minister of Health has not taken the trouble fully to acquaint the House with the success of the 1933 Act and that a great deal more is going forward than would appear from the criticisms which are made.

The hon. Member for the English Universities spoke of the differentiation in rents and gave us an example of what is going on in Leeds. I know that it elicits one's sympathy, but I suggest that it is too late to alter matters now. Many types of citizens are now living in municipal houses. They went there perfectly legally, and to turn them out or insist on their paying a higher rent than they do now would be unfair. It not only penalises them, but suggests that they have no right to be where they are. It is well known that among those living in such houses are many city and borough councillors not necessarily of my own political persuasion but I do not think we should pillory them in this way. They have spent a considerable amount of money in seeing to their gardens and the amenities of their houses, and to turn them out of these houses would mean the cost of redecoration to the local authority and also would be a considerable expense to the individual concerned in removing.

I should like to put one question to the Minister with regard to the unemployable blind. At the present time different rates are paid all over the country, varying from 15s. per week to 25s. and even more, and consequently it is tending to bring people from areas where lower rates of benefit are given to areas where higher standards are paid. In Birmingham we are paying 20s. and I think there is little doubt that we shall pay 25s. But for the fact that around Birmingham we have various boroughs where the rate is less thereby attracting immigrants into our city, we might have done this earlier. I realise that there is a certain waiting period, but the statistics show that this immigration is serious. It is not only the cost of looking after the unemployable blind in our own city, but it disorganises the housing position, and if it be possible for the Minister to consider national control so that there shall be one rate all over the country it will be a great advantage. I have the greatest faith in the success of slum clearance schemes. The Act of 1933 is going to be far more useful than expected, and I feel certain that when we have legislation brought before us regarding overcrowding we shall get the results which we all desire.