Orders of the Day — Summary Jurisdiction (Appeals) Bill.

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at on 3 March 1933.

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Photo of Sir Douglas Hacking Sir Douglas Hacking , Chorley

As a mere layman, I hesitate to intervene in this debate, which has been conducted almost solely, but most efficiently, by those who, on account of their profession, are so fitted to speak on the subject matter of this Bill. I must, however, intervene if only to add my congratulations to the hon. Gentleman for his good fortune in the Ballot. He reminded us that this is not the first time that he has drawn a good place in the Parliamentary sweepstake, and I can only express the hope that he is as fortunate in other forms of gambling as he is in the lottery which is authorised by the Speaker of this House. Both the Mover and the Seconder of this Bill have given a very clear exposition of its terms. They have stated quite concisely, and without any measure of exaggeration, what the Bill seeks to attain, and, as a result of what they have said, it is obvious that every Member of this House must sympathise with their desire.

The Debate has been so full, so complete, that it has left me very little to say. It is probably only necessary for me at this moment, at any rate, to do three things: first of all, to give a short recital of the history of, and suggestions contained in, this Bill; secondly, to answer the very few questions that have been asked me; and, thirdly, and most important, to give the Government's decision as to what they propose to do with the Bill itself. As far as the history is concerned, the question of appeals from courts of summary jurisdiction was debated in the House of Commons in April, 1931, on a Bill which was introduced by my hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge University (Sir J. Withers). The Government spokesman at that time was Mr. Short—no longer a Member of the House—the Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department in the Labour Government. He expressed sympathy with the objects of the Bill, but he did call attention to the difficulties to which it gave rise, and he suggested that it would be better that the whole question should be considered by a Departmental committee. The promise was made by a Member of the Labour Government, and I am sure that all the pledges which were given by that Government, if they could not, in fact, be carried out during their term of office, they would rightly expect that they should be executed, and should be honoured, by their successors. A Parliamentary promise is always sacred, except when circumstances may change. When the financial crisis, became acute in the summer of 1931, there was, obviously, a change in circumstances. The Cabinet of the first National Government decided that the time was not opportune then to proceed with the proposal to appoint a Departmental committee.

The question came up again in the early summer of 1932 during the passage through Parliament of another Measure in which my hon. Friend was interested —the Children and Young Persons Act. During the Committee stage of that Bill in the House of Commons my hon. Friend moved an Amendment proposing that the requirement of recognisances should be abolished in the case of appeals on behalf of young persons under the age of 17. That matter, I understand, w as brought before the Cabinet. At any rate, when the Amendment was reached, the Government spokesman, my hon. Friend, now Minister of Transport, made it quite clear that, in the opinion of the Government, it would be inappropriate to deal only with the question of appeals on behalf of persons under 17 years of age, and that in the submission of the Government it would be undesirable to deal with that question alone, but that it was certainly right that Parliament at some early stage should deal with the whole position of appeals from summary courts by persons of all ages. My hon. Friend added that the Home Secretary had intended, as soon as practicable, to set up a Departmental committee to inquire into the whole question.

Here I must make a point perfectly clear. My hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge University and others who have taken an interest in the subject under discussion, were told clearly that the appointment of the committee would be on the definite understanding that until the financial position of the country had improved, effect would not be given to any of the recommendations of the committee which might involve a considerable expenditure of public money. It is right that that should be made clear at the outset. The Committee was duly appointed in July, 1932. It had very wide terms of reference, namely, to consider the law and practice relating to appeals from decisions of courts of summary jurisdiction and to recommend such amendments, if any, as may be thought desirable. It is hoped that that Committee will report about Easter—not later. So much for the history of this subject. My hon. Friend the Member for West Leyton (Sir W. Sugden), as also did the last speaker, suggested that the Government might construe this Bill as an attack upon the magisterial benches in the country. They certainly will do nothing of the kind, for we know that the last thing the promoters themselves desire is to cast any general reflection on those who preside over our courts of summary jurisdiction. Let me make that perfectly clear. Now I come to the question of cost, which has been mentioned by so many speakers. My hon. Friend the mover of the Bill made certain calculations, and I think, as a result of those calculations, he said that this ought not to cost more than about £600 a year.