Clause 11. — (Provision as to shipbuilding yards.)

Orders of the Day — Import Duties Bill. – in the House of Commons on 22nd February 1932.

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Mr. LUKE THOMRSON:

I beg to move, in page 10, line 29, after the word "yard," to insert the words "or marine engine works."

In moving this Amendment, I wish to draw attention to this Clause, which is a departure from the general structure of the Bill. I should like to know the intention of the Government. Where goods imported into the United Kingdom are consigned direct to a registered shipbuilding yard within the meaning of this section, the Commissioners may do certain things, that is to say exclude the goods from the duty chargeable. The definition in Subsection (3) of shipyards for that purpose is occupied and used for the purpose of the building, repairing, or refitting of ships. We contend that marine engines are an essential part of the building of the ship and should be included in the Clause. It would appear that it is not very clear whether marine engine works are included or not. Whilst they are dissociated in some senses from shipbuilding yards, they are really part and parcel of a shipbuilding yard. We have put the Amendment down in order to get a direct statement from the Government of their intention.

Photo of Sir Louis Smith Sir Louis Smith , Sheffield, Hallam

Many Members were, indeed, surprised to see Clause 11 in the Bill, and I think many Members were even much more surprised to see the Amendments on the Paper to extend the operation of the Clause. I really cannot think that two bad things will make one good. The arguments which my hon. Friend has put forward in no way convince me that it would be advisable to bring in marine engineering works. Do hon. Members imagine that marine engineers, or even shipbuilders, are any more in distress than those industries which are supplying them? When one knows the terrible distress in the iron and steel industry, one would certainly not imagine that there could be any trade in such terrible straits. I have looked into the question of what is done in other countries with regard to marine engineering works. I find, for example, that in France, though there is exemption in some ways for shipyards, it does not include any marine or auxiliary engines, boilers, electrical machines, or anchors. In Norway and Sweden there are many restrictions in the matter. In Germany I am told the administration of the rules for duty free entry allows as little of this material as possible to enter duty free. Surely, having an Advisory Committee set up, we should leave it for them to deal with. The Chancellor of the Exchequer some days ago referred to the character of this Committee. He said: If it is to commend the general confidence of the public, it must be an independent body and if we had said that we were going to take out of their hands the decision as to what is perhaps the most fundamental industry in the country, the industry which most affects other industries, we should have been handicapping that independence and making it extremely difficult for this body to carry out their duties according to their own ideas. We thought it better to leave full discretion to the committee."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 16th February, 1932; col. 1603, Vol. 261.] This is particularly a matter that should be left to the advisory committee, and the question should be in no way prejudged at this stage. The two branches of the iron and steel trade which are mainly dependent on the marine engineering industry are those of heavy castings and forgings and in those two trades there is serious distress. In 1914 it was found that they were key industries. The Admiralty programme was held up because of the lack of their supplies. If we allow the heavy forgings and castings required to come in free and these industries get no help, I can visualise that when a state of emergency may again arise that they will be found lacking in equipment. That equipment takes a long time to build. It is very heavy and there are only two or three firms in the country capable of turning that plant out. It is mast important to consider the heavy casting and forging industry when we are considering the marine engineering trade.

I again appeal to the Chancellor to leave the matter for the decision of the advisory committee. It may be that the Board of Trade are judging the position at the moment with regard to shipbuilding by the figures in the Board of Trade returns. Those figures are most misleading. There are a very large number of heavy forgings coming into the country, not in the rough state, but in a semi-finished and in a finished condition. I appeal to the Board of Trade to make investigations and find out exactly the amount of heavy forgings which are coming in at the present time. I feel sure that if such a record were carefully compiled the right hon. Gentleman would see that this is very dangerous ground upon which to proceed. It is said that this may be a matter that aplies only to my constituency of Sheffield. I hold in nay hand a memorandum which was sent to me on Saturday from the Midlands. The trades which are affected by marine engineering are all over the country. The Birmingham Chamber of Commerce sent rue a memorandum in these word: The ramifications of the shipbuilding industry reach into several important industrial regions throughout the country. Birmingham and the Black County embrace a large number of factories which have specialised in the production of a wide variety of commodities which are integral parts of ships or are ancillary thereto. The effect of Clause 11 of the Bill is to leave such manufacturers unprotected not only in respect of the 10 per cent. ad valorem duty, but also in respect of any additional duties contemplated by the Bill. I submit that Clause 11 is one that should be dealt with by the Advisory Committee. While most warmly supporting every other part of the Bill, I think that we are running grave danger in deciding the question of shipbuilding and marine engineering trades. I ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer to give further consideration to the matter, and not only to resist the Amendment on the Paper at once, but to consider whether it would not be possible to leave the whole matter in the hands of the Advisory Committee.

Photo of Sir Robert Aske Sir Robert Aske , Newcastle upon Tyne East

The hon. Member for Hallam (Mr. L. Smith) expressed the view that there is not greater unemployment in the shipping trade than there is in the iron and steel trade. The hon. Member is very wide of the mark. On the North-East coast the unemployment in the shipping trade is at the present time 75 per cent. more than in any trade in the country, and if the hon. Gentleman's proposals are carried out, our shipyards will be shut down for good and all. [HON. MEMBERS: "Why?"] It is only with the greatest difficulty that it is possible to get any orders at all at the present time. One difficulty under the Clause as it stands is that the building of ships within the meaning of the Clause means the building of entire ships. [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] It means not only the hull but the engines. Many shipbuilding yards build both hulls and engines. Other yards only build hulls. The position is that if the Clause goes through as it stands, the yards which build both hulls and engines will be able to get into their yards all the materials free of duty both for hulls and engines, whereas in the case of yards which only build hulls, the engines being built in other works, the result will be that duties will have to be paid upon materials used in building the engines which come into the country. Therefore, there is a serious discrimination between one set of shipbuilding yards and others. As time is so short, I merely put the point, because I am sure that it will commend itself to the Minister.

Photo of Lieut-Colonel Leo Amery Lieut-Colonel Leo Amery , Birmingham Sparkbrook

The point that has just been made, not an unimportant one, shows how complicated this question is, and how unfair it would be to the Advisory Committee to take this very important part of the whole field out of its purview. I do not think anyone here would underestimate the importance of safeguarding the interests of shipbuilding in every way or of giving shipbuilding every concession that is necessary for its success, treating it, as far as may be necessary, as an export industry; but I do submit that it is a very considerable departure from the principle of the Bill to take the whole of this field, interlocking in all sorts of ways with other phases of engineering, cabinet work and construction work, entirely out of the purview of the committee, and not to enable the committee, after careful investigation, where they have the advantage of the knowledge to be gathered in further investigations, to make a definite recommendation. For instance, it might be possible for the committee to recommend the free entry to registered shipbuilding yards of certain foreign materials, coupled with conditions as to quantity, and not only under conditions such as those mentioned in the Clause.

I believe that in a great many foreign countries where there is nominal free entry into shipbuilding yards, it is strictly limited by quota. It might very well be that the committee would recommend that, coupling it with a variety of important conditions. I suggest, therefore, very earnestly to the Chancellor of the Exchequer that he should reconsider the Clause before Report from the point of view of reinstating into it the authority of the committee, and then, if he feels it essential to the shipbuilding industry, to allow a suspension for the moment from the powers of the Clause, but to do that only pending a definite recommendation from the com- mittee. It certainly seems a great pity that this very important field should permanently be excluded from the general consideration of our industrial structure.

Photo of Mr Luke Thompson Mr Luke Thompson , Sunderland

On a point of Order. Is it desirable or in order to have a general Debate on the whole Clause? I appreciate the speeches that have been made in favour of the exclusion of the Clause, but I would point out that my Amendment refers to the definition of a shipbuilding yard.

Captain ARTHUR EVANS:

As there are eight Amendments on the Order Paper dealing with various parts of this Clause, may I submit that it would be for the convenience of the Committee if the whole subject could be discussed on the first Amendment?

Photo of Mr Robert Bourne Mr Robert Bourne , Oxford

It is true that the Amendment of the hon. Member for Sunderland (Mr. L. Thompson) is confined to shipbuilding yards, and I have not so far heard any speeches that have been far away from that. A general discussion is out of the question, seeing that we are only within five minutes of the fall of the Guillotine.

Photo of Mr Thomas Griffiths Mr Thomas Griffiths , Pontypool

Will the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Trade, in his reply, let me know whether ship plates are included, because our men are paid on a sliding scale?

Photo of Mr Leslie Hore-Belisha Mr Leslie Hore-Belisha , Plymouth, Devonport

I agree that it is a pity that time prevents us from having a full discussion on this very important question. [HON. MEMBERS: "Whose fault is that?"] So much time was used in the reiteration of arguments on a previous Clause that we no longer have an opportunity of examining a proposal concerning one of our principal industries. The Government have given attention to this matter and have put down this Clause as the result of very close and sympathetic consideration. After taking into account all the arguments on both sides, it has been decided to allow goods for the building and repair of ships to be imported into the United Kingdom free, provided they be consigned direct to a registered shipbuilding yard. My hon. Friend who has moved the Amendment in so earnest a speech wishes to add the words "marine engine works" so that anything consigned to marine engineering yards would be exempt from duty in exactly the same way as if it were consigned to a shipbuilding yard.

Photo of Sir Robert Aske Sir Robert Aske , Newcastle upon Tyne East

But only if the material is to be used for the building of ships.

Photo of Mr Leslie Hore-Belisha Mr Leslie Hore-Belisha , Plymouth, Devonport

Precisely. I was aware of that, and so I believe is the whole Committee; because we are only dealing with shipbuilding.

An HON. MEMBER:

Are we not dealing with the refitting of ships?

Photo of Mr Leslie Hore-Belisha Mr Leslie Hore-Belisha , Plymouth, Devonport

I do not think any hon. Member is in any doubt as to the subject with which we are dealing. My hon. Friend wishes to apply the exemption to marine engineering yards, because he thought the Clause did not go far enough. My hon. Friend who followed him from a steel-making quarter thought it went too far and, therefore, the Committee will realise that to some extent these two arguments cancel each other out. I want to assure my hon. Friends that the Government have tried even before they saw the Amendment on the Paper to meet the point in advance. The difficulty is that marine engineering yards are many, and they do not always confine themselves to work for the shipbuilding trade. Many of them make equipment of an entirely different kind. Try as we would we found it impossible to devise a formula to meet my hon. Friend's point. It is administratively impossible. Therefore, my hon. Friend will understand that it is not lack of sympathy that has caused the Government to reject the principle of this Amendment. We have to have something of this kind in the Bill because our principal rivals in shipbuilding have a clause based on the same principle. In Germany and in Holland, where they have a protective system, in one case high and in the other low, they give exemption on exactly the same basis as we propose to give it here, and we are, therefore, following their practice. I wish it had been possible to accept the point put forward in the Amendment, but it has been found to be administratively impossible.

Photo of Mr Neil Maclean Mr Neil Maclean , Glasgow Govan

Does not Subsection (2) cover the very points covered by the Amendments?

Photo of Mr Thomas Griffiths Mr Thomas Griffiths , Pontypool

Will the Parliamentary Secretary answer my question as to whether ship plates are included?

Photo of Mr Luke Thompson Mr Luke Thompson , Sunderland

Do I understand that if a correct form of words could be obtained, they would be accepted by the Government?

It being half-past Ten of the Clock the CHAIRMAN proceeded, pursuant to the Order of the House of 17th February, to

put forthwith the Question on the Amendment already proposed from the Chair.

Question put, "That those words be there inserted."

The Committee divided: Ayes, 63; Noes, 301.

Division No. 79.]AYES.[10.31 p.m.
Adams, D. M. (Poplar, South)Grundy, Thomas W.Mander, Geoffrey le M.
Aske, Sir Robert WilliamHall, F. (York, W.R., Normanton)Mason, David M. (Edinburgh, E.)
Attlee, Clement RichardHall, George H. (Merthyr Tydvil)Maxton, James
Barrie, Sir Charles CouparHarris, Sir PercyMorris, Rhys Hopkin (Cardigan)
Batey, JosephHicks, Ernest GeorgeNathan, Major H. L.
Bernays, RobertHirst, George HenryOwen, Major Goronwy
Briant, FrankHoldsworth, HerbertParkinson, John Allen
Brown, C. w. E. (Notts., Mansfield)Janner, BarnettPearson, William G.
Buchanan, GeorgeJohnstone, Harcourt (S. Shields)Pickering, Ernest H.
Cape, ThomasJones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth)Price, Gabriel
Cocks, Frederick SeymourJones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown)Roberts, Aled (Wrexham)
Cripps, sir StaffordJones, Morgan (Caerphilly)Rothschild, James A. de
Daggar, GeorgeLansbury, Rt. Hon. GeorgeSalter, Dr. Alfred
Davies, David U. (Pontypridd)Lawson, John JamesStorey, Samuel
Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton)Leonard, WilliamThompson, Luke
Edwards, CharlesLogan, David GilbertThorne, William James
Foot, Dingle (Dundee)Lunn, WilliamTinker, John Joseph
Foot, Isaac (Cornwall, Bodmin)Macdonald, Gordon (Ince)Watts-Morgan, Lieut.-Col. David
George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke)McEntee, Valentine L.Williams, Thomas (York, Don Valley)
Grenfell, David Rees (Glamorgan)Maclay, Hon. Joseph Paton
Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool)Maclean, Nell (Glasgow, Govan)TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Groves, Thomas E.Mallalieu, Edward LancelotMr. John and Mr. Duncan Craham.
NOES.
Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-ColonelCarver, Major William H.Elliston, Captain George Sampson
Adams, Samuel Vyvyan T. (Leeds, W.)Cassels, James DaleElmley, Viscount
Agnew, Lieut.-Com. P. G.Castlereagh, ViscountEmmott, Charles E. G. C.
Ainsworth, Lieut.-Colonel CharlesCastle Stewart, EarlEmrys-Evans, P. V.
Alien, sir J. Sandeman (Liverp'l, W.)Cautley, Sir Henry S.Entwistle, Cyril Fullard
Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S.Cayzer; Maj. Sir H. R. (Prtsmth., S.)Erskine-Bolst, Capt. C. C. (Blackpool)
Anstruther-Gray, W. J.Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.)Evans, Capt. Arthur (Cardiff, S.)
Applin, Lieut.-Col. Reginald V. K.Chalmers, John RutherfordFermoy, Lord
Atholl, Duchess ofChamberlain, Rt. Hon. Sir J. A. (Birm., W)Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst
Bailey, Eric Alfred GeorgeChamberlain, Rt. Hn. N. (Edgbaston)Fraser, Captain Ian
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. StanleyChorlton, Alan Ernest LeofricFremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E.
Baldwin-Webb, Colonel J.Chotzner, Alfred JamesGanzoni, Sir John
Balfour, Capt. Harold (I. of Thanet)Clarke, FrankGault, Lieut.-Col. A. Hamilton
Balniel, LordClayton, Dr. George C.Gibson, Charles Granville
Barclay-Harvey, C. M.Clydesdale, Marquess ofGilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John
Barton, Capt. Basil KelseyCobb, Sir CyrilGlossop, C. W. H.
Beaumont, Hon. R.E.B. (Portsm'th, C.)Colfox, Major William PhilipGluckstein, Louis Halle
Bevan, Stuart James (Holborn)Colman, N. C. D.Glyn, Major Ralph G. C.
Birchall, Major Sir John DearmanColville, Major David JohnGoldie, Noel B.
Bird, Ernest Roy (Yorks., Skipton)Conant, R. J. E.Goodman, Colonel Albert W.
Bird, Sir Robert B. (Wolverh'pton W.)Cook, Thomas A.Gower, Sir Robert
Blaker, Sir ReginaldCooke, James D.Graham, Fergus (Cumberland, N.)
Blinded, JamesCourthope, Colonel Sir George LGraves, Marjorie
Borodale, ViscountCraven-Ellis, WilliamGreene, William P. C.
Bossom, A. C.Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H.Gretton, Colonel Rt. Hon. John
Boulton, W. W.Crooke, J. SmedleyGrimston, R. V.
Bower, Lieut.-Com. Robert TattonCrookshank, Capt. H. C. (Gainsb'ro)Gunston, Captain D. W.
Boyce, H. LeslieCroom-Johnson, R. p.Guy, J. C. Morrison
Boyd-Carpenter, Sir ArchibaldCross, R. H.Hacking, Rt. Hon. Douglas H.
Bracken, BrendanCrossley, A. C.Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich)
Braithwaite, J. G. (Hillsborough)Cruddas, Lieut.-Colonel BernardHall, Capt. W. D'Arcy (Brecon)
Briscoe, Capt. Richard GeorgeDawson, Sir PhilipHamilton, Sir George (Ilford)
Brocklebank, C. E. R.Denman, Hon. R. D.Hammersley, Samuel S.
Brown, Col. D. C (N'th'l'd., Hexham)Despencer-Robertson, Major J. A. F.Hanbury, Cecil
Buchan-Hepburn, P. G. T.Danner, P. W.Hanley, Dennis A.
Burghley, LordDrewe, CedricHannon, Patrick Joseph Henry
Burgin, Dr. Edward LeslieDuckworth, George A. V.Hartland, George A.
Burnett, John GeorgeDugdale, Captain Thomas LionelHarvey, George (Lambeth, Kenningt'n)
Butt, Sir AlfredDuggan, Hubert JohnHarvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes)
Cadogan, Hon. EdwardDuncan, James A. L. (Kensington, N.)Haslam, Sir John (Bolton)
Caine, G. R. Hall-Eastwood, John FrancisHeadlam, Lieut.-Col. Cuthbert M.
Campbell, Edward Taswell (Bromley)Edmondson, Major A. J.Hellgers, Captain F. F. A.
Campbell-Johnston, MalcolmElliot, Major Rt. Hon. Walter E.Henderson, Sir Vivian L. (Chelmsford)
Caporn, Arthur CecilEllis, Robert GeoffreyHeneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P.
Hillman, Dr. George B.Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest)Selley, Harry R.
Hills, Major Rt. Hon. John WallerMilne, CharlesShakespeare, Geoffrey H.
Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G.Milne, John Sydney Wardlaw-Shaw, Helen B. (Lanark, Bothwell)
Hope, Sydney (Chester, Stalybridge)Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham)Shaw, Captain William T. (Forfar)
Hore-Belisha, LeslieMitcheson, G. G.Shepperson, Sir Ernest W.
Hornby, FrankMolson, A. Hugh ElsdaleSinclair, Col. T. (Queen's Unv., Belfast)
Horobin, Ian M.Moreing, Adrian C.Skelton, Archibald Noel
Horsbrugh, FlorenceMoss, Captain H. J.Smiles, Lieut.-Col. Sir Walter D.
Howard, Tom ForrestMunro, PatrickSmith, Sir Jonah W. (Barrow-in-F.)
Howitt, Dr. Alfred B.Nation, Brigadier-General J. J. H.Smith, Louis W. (Sheffield, Hallam)
Hudson, Capt. A. U. M.(Hackney, N.)Nicholson, Godfrey (Morpeth)Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & King'dine, C.)
Hudson, Robert Spear (Southport)North, Captain Edward T.Smith-Carington, Neville W.
Hume, Sir George HopwoodNunn, WilliamSomerset, Thomas
Hunter, Dr. Joseph (Dumfries)O'Connor, Terence JamesSomervell, Donald Bradley
Hutchison, W. D. (Essex, Romf'd)O'Donovan, Dr. William JamesSomerville, Annesley A. (Windsor)
Inskip, Rt. Hon. Sir Thomas W. H.O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Sir HughSomerville, D. G. (Willesden, East)
Jackson, Sir Henry (Wandsworth, C.)Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Han. William G. A.Southby, Commander Archibald R. J.
James, Wing-Com. A. W. H.Palmer, Francis NoelSpears, Brigadier-General Edward L.
Jesson, Major Thomas E.Patrick, Colin M.Spencer, Captain Richard A.
Joel, Dudley J. BarnatoPeake, Captain OsbertStanley, Lord (Lancaster, Fylde)
Jones, Sir G. W. H. (Stoke New'gton)Peat, Charles U.Stanley, Hon. O. F. C. (Westmorland)
Ker, J. CampbellPenny, Sir GeorgeSteel-Maitland, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur
Kerr, Hamilton W.Perkins, Walter R. D.Stones, James
Kirkpatrick, William M.Petherick, M.Stourton, Hon. John J.
Knatchbull, Captain Hon. M. H. R.Peto, Geoffrey K.(W'verh'pt'n, Bilston)Strauss, Edward A.
Knebworth, ViscountPowell, Lieut.-Col. Evelyn G. H.Strickland, Captain W. F.
Knox, Sir AlfredProcter, Major Henry AdamStuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Lamb. Sir Joseph QuintanPurbrick, R.Sugden, Sir Wilfrid Hart
Lambert, Rt. Hon. GeorgePybus, Percy JohnSutcliffe, Harold
Latham, Sir Herbert PaulRaikes, Henry V. A. M.Tate, Mavis Constance
Leckie, J. A.Ramsay, Capt. A. H. M. (Midlothian)Taylor, Vice-Admiral E.A. (P'dd'gt'n, S.)
Leighton, Major B. E. P.Ramsay, T. B. W. (Western Isles)Templeton, William P.
Lewis, OswaldRamsbotham, HerwaldThomas, James P. L. (Hereford)
Liddall, Walter S.Ramsden, E.Thomas, Major L. B. (King's Norton)
Lindsay, Noel KerRankin, RobertThomson, Sir Frederick Charles
Lister, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip Cunliffe-Reed, Arthur C. (Exeter)Thorp, Linton Theodore
Little, Graham-, Sir ErnestHeld, James S. C. (Stirling)Todd, Capt. A. J. K. (B'wick-on-T.)
Lloyd, GeoffreyRenter, John R.Touche, Gordon Cosmo
Locker-Lampson, Rt. Hn. G.(Wd. Gr'n)Rentoul, Sir Gervais S.Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement
Lovat-Fraser, James AlexanderRenwick, Major Gustav A.Turton, Robert Hugh
Lumley, Captain Lawrence R.Reynolds, Col. Sir James PhilipWard, Sarah Adelaide (Cannock)
Lyons, Abraham MontaguRhys, Hon. Charles Arthur U.Warrender, Sir Victor A. G.
MacAndrew, Capt. J. O. (Ayr)Robinson, John RolandWedderburn, Henry James Scrymgeour-
McCorquodale, M. S.Rodd, Rt. Hon. Sir James RennellWells, Sydney Richard
Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.)Ropner, Colonel L.Weymouth, Viscount
McEwen, J. H. F.Rosbotham, S. T.Whiteside, Borras Noel H.
McKie, John HamiltonRoss Taylor, Walter (Woodbridge)Williams, Charles (Devon, Torquay)
McLean, Major AlanRunciman, Rt. Hon. WalterWills, Wilfrid D.
McLean, Dr. W. H. (Tradeston)Runge, Nor ah CecilWilson, Clyde T. (West Toxteth)
Makins, Brigadier-General ErnestRussell, Alexander West (Tynemouth)Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George
Manningham-Buller, Lt.-Col. Sir M.Rutherford, Sir John HugoWise, Alfred R.
Margesson, Capt. Henry David ft.Salmon, Major IsidoreWomersley, Walter James
Marjoribanks, EdwardSamuel, Samuel (W'dsworth, Putney)Young, Rt. Hon. Sir Hilton (S'v'noaks)
Marsden, Commander ArthurSandeman, Sir A. N. Stewart
Martin, Thomas B.Sanderson, Sir Frank BarnardTELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Mayhew, Lieut.-Colonel JohnSassoon, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip A. G. D.Lieut.-Colonel Sir A. Lambert Ward
Merriman, Sir F. BoydSavery, Samuel Servingtonand Major George Davies.
Mills, Sir Frederick (Leyton, E.)Scone, Lord

The CHAIRMAN then proceeded to put forthwith the Question necessary to dispose of the business to be concluded at half-past Ten of the Clock at this day's Sitting.

Question put, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill."

The committee divided: Ayes, 342; Noes, 29.

Division No. 80.]AYES.[10.43 p.m.
Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-ColonelBarclay-Harvey, C. M.Briant, Frank
Adams, Samuel Vyvyan T, (Leeds, W.)Barrie, Sir Charles CouparBriscoe, Capt. Richard George
Agnew, Lieut.-Com. p. G.Barton, Capt. Basil KelseyBrockiebank, C. E. R.
Ainsworth, Lieut.-Colonel CharlesBeauchamp, Sir Brograve CampbellBrown, Col. D. C. (N'th'd., Hexham)
Allen, Sir J. Sandeman (Liverp'l, W.)Beaumont, Hon. R.E.B. (Portsm'th, C.)Brown, Ernest (Leith)
Anstruther-Gray, W. J.Sernays, RobertBuchan-Hepburn, P. G. T.
Applin, Lieut.-Col. Reginald V. K.Bevan, Stuart James (Holborn)Burghley, Lord
Aske, Sir Robert WilliamBirchall, Major Sir John DearmanBurgin, Dr. Edward Leslie
Atholl, Duchess ofBird, Ernest Roy (Yorks., Skipton)Burnett, John George
Attlee, Clement RichardBird, Sir Robert B. (Wolverh'pton W.)Butt, Sir Alfred
Bailey, Eric Alfred GeorgeBorodale, ViscountCadogan, Hon. Edward
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. StanleyBossom, A. C.Caine, G. R. Hall-
Balfour, Capt. Harold (I. of Thanet)Bower, Lieut.-Com. Robert TattonCampbell, Edward Taswell (Bromley)
Balniel, LordBracken, BrendanCampbell-Johnston, Malcolm
Caporn, Arthur CecilHammersley, Samuel S.Marsden, Commander Arthur
Carver, Major William H.Hanbury, CecilMartin, Thomas B.
Cassels, James DaleHanley, Dennis A.Mason, David M. (Edinburgh, E.)
Castlereagh, viscountHarris, Sir PercyMayhew, Lieut.-Colonel John
Castle Stewart, EarlHartland, George A.Merriman, Sir F. Boyd
Cautley, Sir Henry S.Harvey, George (Lambeth, Kenningt'n)Millar, Sir James Duncan
Cayzer, Maj. Sir H. Ft. (Prtsmth., S.)Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes)Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest)
Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.)Haslam, Sir John (Bolton)Milne, Charles
Chalmers, John RutherfordHeadlam, Lieut.-Col. Cuthbert M.Mitchell, Harold P. (Br'tf'd & Chisw'k)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. Sir J.A. (Birm., W)Heilgers, Captain F, F. A.Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. N. (Edgbaston)Henderson, Sir Vivian L. (Chelmsford)Mitcheson, G. G.
Chorlton, Alan Ernest LeofricHeneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P.Molson, A. Hugh Elsdale
Chotzner, Alfred JamesHillman, Dr. George B.Moreing, Adrian C.
Clarke, FrankHills, Major Rt. Hon. John WallerMorris, Rhys Hopkin (Cardigan)
Clydesdale, Marquess ofHirst, George HenryMoss, Captain H. J.
Cobb, Sir CyrilHoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G.Munro, Patrick
Colfox, Major William PhilipHoldsworth, HerbertNathan, Major H. L.
Colman, N. C. D.Hope, Capt. Arthur O. J. (Aston)Nation, Brigadier-General J. J. H.
Colville, Major David JohnHope, Sydney (Chester, Stalybridge)Nicholson, Godfrey (Morpeth)
Conant, R. J. E.Hore-Belisha, LeslieNorth, Captain Edward T.
Cook, Thomas A.Hornby, FrankO'Connor, Terence James
Cooke, James D.Horobin, Ian M.O'Donovan, Dr. William James
Courthope, Colonel Sir George L.Horsbrugh, FlorenceO'Neill, Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh
Craven-Ellis, WilliamHoward, Tom ForrestOrmsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William G. A.
Cripps, Sir StaffordHowitt, Dr. Alfred B.Owen, Major Goronwy
Crooke, J. SmedleyHudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.)Palmer, Francis Noel
Crookshank, Capt. H. C. (Gainsb'ro)Hudson, Robert Spear (Southport)Parkinson, John Allen
Croom-Johnson, R. P.Hume, Sir George HopwoodPatrick, Colin M.
Cross, R. H.Hunter, Dr. Joseph (Dumfries)Peake, Captain Osbert
Crossley, A. C.Hutchison, W. D. (Essex, Romf'd)Pearson, William G.
Cruddas, Lieut.-Colonel BernardInskip, Rt. Hon. Sir Thomas W. H.Penny, Sir George
Davies, Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset, Yeovil)Jackson, sir Henry (Wandsworth, C.)Perkins, Walter R. D.
Dawson, Sir PhilipJames, Wing-Com. A. W. H.Petherick, M.
Despencer-Robertson, Major J. A. F.Janner, BarnettPeto, Geoffrey K. (W'verh'pt'n, Bilston)
Dickie, John P.Jesson, Major Thomas E.Pickering, Ernest H.
Donner, P. W.Joel, Dudley J. BarnatoPowell, Lieut.-Col. Evelyn G. H.
Drewe, CedricJohn, WilliamPrice, Gabriel
Duckworth, George A. V.Johnstone, Harcourt (S. Shields)Procter, Major Henry Adam
Dugdale, Captain Thomas LionelJones, Sir G. W. H. (Stoke New'gton)Purbrick, R.
Duggan, Hubert JohnJones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth)Pybus, Percy John
Duncan, James A. L. (Kensington, N.)Jones, Lewis (Swansea, West)Raikes, Henry V. A. M.
Eastwood, John FrancisJones, Morgan (Caerphilly)Ramsay, Alexander (W. Bromwich)
Eden, Robert AnthonyKer, J. CampbellRamsay, Capt. A. H. M. (Midlothian)
Edmondson, Major A. J.Kerr, Hamilton W.Ramsay, T. B. W. (Western Isles)
Edwards, CharlesKirkpatrick, William M.Ramsbotham, Herwald
Elliot, Major Rt. Hon. Walter E.Knatchbull, Captain Hon. M. H. R.Ramsden, E.
Ellis, Robert GeoffreyKnebworth, ViscountRankin, Robert
Elliston, Captain George SampsonLambert, Rt. Hon. GeorgeRea, Walter Russell
Elmley, ViscountLansbury, Rt. Hon. GeorgeReed, Arthur C. (Exeter)
Emmott, Charles E. G. C.Latham, Sir Herbert PaulReid, James S. C. (Stirling)
Emrys-Evans, P. V.Lawson, John JamesRentoul, Sir Gervais S.
Entwistle, Cyril FullardLeckie, J. A.Renwick, Major Gustav A.
Erskine-Bolst, Capt. C. C. (Blackpool)Leighton, Major B. E. P.Reynolds, Col. Sir James Philip
Evans, R. T. (Carmarthen)Leonard, WilliamRhys, Hon. Charles Arthur U.
Fermoy, LordLewis, OswaldRoberts, Aled (Wrexham)
Fielden, Edward BrocklehurstLiddall, Walter S.Robinson, John Roland
Foot, Dingle (Dundee)Lindsay, Noel KerRodd, Rt. Hon. Sir James Rennell
Foot, Isaac (Cornwall, Bodmin)Lister, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip Cunliffe-Ropner, Colonel L.
Fraser, Captain IanLittle, Graham-, Sir ErnestRosbotham, S. T.
Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E.Lloyd, GeoffreyRoss Taylor, Walter (Woodbridge)
Ganzoni, Sir JohnLocker-Lampson, Rt. Hn. G. (Wd. Gr'n)Rothschild, James A. de
George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke)Lovat-Fraser, James AlexanderRunciman, Rt. Hon. Walter
Gibson, Charles GranvilleLumley, Captain Lawrence R.Runge, Norah Cecil
Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir JohnLunn, WilliamRussell, Alexander West (Tynemouth)
Glossop, C. w. H.Lyons, Abraham MontaguRutherford, Sir John Hugo
Gluckstein, Louis HalleMabane, WilliamSalmon, Major Isidore
Glyn, Major Ralph G. C.MacAndrew, Maj. C. G. (Partick)Samuel, Rt. Hon. Sir H. (Darwen)
Goff, Sir ParkMacAndrew, Capt. J. O. (Ayr)Samuel, Samuel (W'dsworth, Putney)
Goldie, Noel B.McCorquodale, M. S.Sandeman, Sir A. N. Stewart
Goodman, Colonel Albert W.Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.)Sanderson, Sir Frank Barnard
Gower, Sir RobertMcEntee, Valentine L.Sassoon, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip A. G. O.
Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton)McEwen, J. H. F.Savery, Samuel Servington
Graham, Fergus (Cumberland, N.)McKie, John HamiltonScone, Lord
Graves, MarjorieMaclay, Hon. Joseph PatonSelley, Harry R.
Greene, William P. C.McLean, Major AlanShakespeare, Geoffrey H.
Gretton, Colonel Rt. Hon. JohnMaclean, Neil (Glasgow, Govan)Shaw, Helen B. (Lanark, Bothwell)
Griffith, F. Kingsley (Middlesbro', W.)McLean, Dr. W. H. (Tradeston)Shaw, Captain William T. (Forfar)
Grundy, Thomas W.Macmillan, Maurice HaroldShepperson, Sir Ernest W.
Guinness, Thomas L. E. B.Magnay, ThomasSinclair, Maj. Rt. Hn. Sir A. (C'thness)
Gunston, Captain D. W.Makins, Brigadier-General ErnestSinclair, Col. T.(Queen's Unv., Belfast)
Guy, J. C. MorrisonMallalieu, Edward LancelotSkelton, Archibald Noel
Hacking, Rt. Hon. Douglas H.Mander, Geoffrey le M.Smiles, Lieut.-Col. Sir Walter D.
Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich)Manningham-Buller, Lt.-Col. Sir M.Smith, Sir Jonah W. (Barrow-In-F.)
Hall, George H. (Merthyr Tydvil)Margesson, Capt. Henry David R.Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.)
Hall, Capt. W. D'Arcy (Brecon)Marjoribanks, EdwardSmith-Carington, Neville W.
Somerset, ThomasSugden, Sir Wilfrid HartWedderburn, Henry James Scrymgeour-
Somervell, Donald BradleySutcliffe, HaroldWells, Sydney Richard
Somerville, Annesley A. (Windsor)Tate, Mavis ConstanceWeymouth, Viscount
Somerville, D. G. (Willesden, East)Templeton, William P.Whiteside, Borras Noel H.
Soper, RichardThomas, James P. L. (Hereford)Williams, Charles (Devon, Torquay)
Sotheron-Estcourt, Captain T. E.Thompson, LukeWills, Wilfrid D.
Southby, Commander Archibald R. J.Thomson, Sir Frederick CharlesWilson, Clyde T. (West Toxteth)
Spears, Brigadier-General Edward L.Thorp, Linton TheodoreWindsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George
Spencer, Captain Richard A.Todd, Capt. A. J. K. (B'wick-on-T.)Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Stanley, Lord (Lancaster, Fylde)Touche, Gordon CosmoWise, Alfred R.
Stanley, Hon. O. F. C. (Westmorland)Tryon, Rt. Hon. George ClementWomersley, Walter James
Stones, JamesTurton, Robert HughWood, Sir Murdoch McKenzie (Banff)
Storey, SamuelWallace, John (Dunfermline)Young, Rt. Hon. Sir Hilton (S'v'noaks)
Stourton, Hon. John J.Ward, Irene Mary Bewick (Wallsend)
Strauss, Edward A.Ward, Sarah Adelaide (Cannock)TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)Warrender, Sir Victor A. G.Lieut.-Colonel Sir A. Lambert Ward
and Mr. Blinded.
NOES.
Adams, D. M. (Poplar, South)Groves, Thomas E.Russell, Hamer Field (Shef'ld, B'tside)
Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S.Hall, F. (York, W.R., Normanton)Salter, Dr. Alfred
Balfour, George (Hampstead)Hamilton, Sir George (Ilford)Steel-Maitland, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur
Batey, JosephHannon, Patrick Joseph HenryStrickland, Captain W. F.
Boulton, W. W.Hicks, Ernest GeorgeTaylor, Vice-Admiral E.A.(P'dd'gt'n, S.)
Boyce, H. LeslieKnox, Sir AlfredThorne, William James
Braithwaite, J. G. (Hillsborough)Lamb, Sir Joseph QuintonWatts-Morgan, Lieut.-Col. David
Clayton, Dr. George C.Mills, Sir Frederick (Leyton, E.)
Daggar, GeorgeNunn, WilliamTELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton)Peat, Charles U.Mr. Louis Smith and Major
Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool)Remer, John R.Beaumont Thomas.

Motion made, and Question, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again," put, and agreed to.—[Captain Margesson.]

Committee report Progress; to sit again To-morrow.

The remaining Orders were read, and postponed.