Clause 1. — (Special Government contributions to hosing expenses of certain rural district councils.)

Part of Orders of the Day — Housing (Rural Authorities) Bill. – in the House of Commons at on 14 July 1931.

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Photo of Sir Kingsley Wood Sir Kingsley Wood , Woolwich West

I have been called upon rather unexpectedly to speak on this Amendment. Certainly it is a very important one, because it asks the Minister, when he gives directions to the committee, to give directions regarding the cost, size and materials of the houses proposed to be built. I was surprised that no hon. Gentleman opposite rose to deal with this Amendment, because I thought, having regard to the previous utterances of hon. Members opposite, many of them would have desired to state their views as to what should be the size of and the provisions in regard to the houses erected as a consequence of the extra financial contribution provided under this Bill. I remember that some years ago, when my right hon. Friend the Member for Edgbaston (Mr. Chamberlain) and I had the privilege of introducing housing proposals in the House, one of the things which hon. Gentlemen opposite insisted on introducing into the text of the Bill was a provision as to the exact size and dimensions of the houses concerned. How is it that we hear nothing from hon. Gentlemen opposite with regard to that question? Have they no longer any consideration for the amenities which are to be placed at the disposal of agricultural labourers under this Bill? Certainly, this is a matter which calls for the attention of the Committee.

I believe that the hon. Member for Brigg (Mr. Quibell) is associated very honourably and successfully with the building trade, and is one of those private builders who used to be despised, but for whom I, at any rate, have a great regard and admiration. He suggested the other day that a considerable case had been made out for the non-parlour house. I thought, when he said that, that things were indeed looking up so far as the Socialist party were concerned. Here we have a man, with great experience both of building cost and building accommodation, suggesting that, so far from specifying in the Act, as used to be the policy of the Socialist party in days gone by, that there must be a certain area, space, and number of rooms, he has the courage, and I commend it, to say that his experience of rural districts is such that, so far from suggesting parlour houses, he is of the opinion, which I think a good many people share, that in many houses the parlour is simply used on the Sabbath day, and not at all in others. The hon. Member quite rightly says in a good many cases, "Why go to all this cost in building these houses which con- tain parlours and rooms of that kind?" That is a matter that certainly provoked discussion in the Committee. I have heard hon. Members opposite say they would die in the last ditch if a house was erected without a parlour. I remember when my right hon. Friend the Member for Edgbaston put any such consideration before the Committee he was accused of building rabbit hutches for the workers, and other disagreeable descriptions were given of his proposals. Indeed, a change has come over the situation. There is a great deal of doubt as to what exactly the housing provision is going to be under these proposals, because an hon. Member behind me who is very experienced in these matters put this question to the Minister a week ago: May I ask the right hon. Gentleman, while he is on that point, if he will give the Committee some idea of the accommodation he expects this house to provide? The Minister replied: I do not want to standardise any kind of accommodation. It would have to be varying accommodation. Those are significant words. He does not want to have any standardisation, so changed is he in the office he now occupies. It was a voice from the Liberal benches that intervened: Sir J. TUDOR WALTERS: Probably a five-roomed house, with three bedrooms."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 7th July, 1931; col. 1999, Vol. 254.] What is it going to be? We are asking in the Amendment that some directions shall be given by the responsible Minister as to the cost, size and materials of the new houses that are going to be erected. We ask that, because, no doubt, if the Minister has to give directions, hon. Members who may not be satisfied will be able to challenge him in the House. They will be able to say, "You have given directions which allow this committee very extreme latitude." If the right hon. Gentleman goes back on all he ever said on the question of accommodation, then, even if he has the support of a considerable number of hon. Members behind him, other hon. Members who do not agree with him will be able to challenge him and to say, "You have given such directions as to permit the committee to have all kinds of varying accommodation."

If that is so, we shall be satisfied. All we desire is that there shall be some Ministerial responsibility for the size of the houses. We shall then have an opportunity, having seen the directions that will be imposed as a duty on the Minister if the Amendment is carried, of calling him to account for any directions which he may give as to the accommodation that is to be afforded. That will be an excellent thing, because we shall be able to compare what he has said in the past with his performances to-day. We shall be able to recall how he accused hon. Members on this side, particularly my right hon. Friend the Member for Edgbaston, of neglecting the needs of the people when he did not make provision for the full accommodation that was at that time desired by so many Members opposite. That gives us some opportunity of Parliamentary inquisition, and it may be that hon. Members opposite may also desire to avail themselves of that opportunity.

This is a very important Amendment, because it raises the question whether the Minister himself shall take any responsibility for the kind and the extent of the accommodation that is to be made available for the new houses that are to be erected as a consequence of the increased subsidy. Hon. Members opposite who have given consideration to the problem in the rural areas and have been so busy in the past in making their contributions to the Debates on the subject will not desire to remain silent tonight, and I am sure none of them will seek to avoid supporting this proposal in the Division Lobby, because, while their views may differ as to the kind of accommodation that is to be given, they would all agree that there should be some Ministerial responsibility in an important matter of this kind.