Business of the House.

– in the House of Commons at on 5 March 1931.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Mr Stanley Baldwin Mr Stanley Baldwin , Bewdley

Will the Prime Minister tell the House what business he proposes to take to-night?

Photo of Mr Ramsay Macdonald Mr Ramsay Macdonald , Seaham

The purpose of suspending the Eleven o'Clock Rule to-night is to secure the two outstanding Votes which are due for the Report stage.

Photo of Mr Stanley Baldwin Mr Stanley Baldwin , Bewdley

Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman does not realise that the First Commissioner of Works last night and the night before last gave us an assurance that these Votes would be taken at a reasonable hour, and does the right hon. Gentleman think that 11 o'clock at night is a reasonable hour, especially in the light of the observation of the Secretary for Mines a quarter of an hour ago that he had a long and complicated statement to make?

Photo of Mr Ramsay Macdonald Mr Ramsay Macdonald , Seaham

If I am correctly informed, the right hon. Gentleman the First Commissioner did not say "a reasonable hour," but "a reasonable discussion." [HON. MEMBERS "No, a reasonable hour!"] A reasonable discussion—that is what has been conveyed to me. However, it does not matter. As a matter of fact, all old hands in this House know that the Report stage of the Votes of Supply are very frequently discussed at 11 o'clock.

Commander Sir BOLTON EYRES MONSELL:

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the First Commissioner of Works did not only say at a reasonable hour—and it is absolutely clear what was in the right hon. Gentleman's mind—but that he went on to say, It must not be taken that we are going to give a day."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 3rd March, 1931; col. 361, Vol. 249.] But, quite apart from the pledge which I consider was given on behalf of His Majesty's Government, does not the right hon. Gentleman think that a couple of hours might be given at a reasonable time to discuss something to which His Majesty's Opposition attaches importance, out of the weeks that are being wasted?

Photo of Mr Ramsay Macdonald Mr Ramsay Macdonald , Seaham

If the right hon. Gentleman talks about weeks that have been wasted, he will find me as adamant as a rock, but if he puts it to me as a reasonable request made by the Opposition, I always do my very best to meet that. I do, however, think it is quite reasonable in the circumstances to ask for these Votes. At the same time, during the day there will be opportunities for the exchange of views upon it, and I shall be only too glad to agree to anything which is agreed to by the usual representatives who arrange these things. But I must not be assumed to admit at this moment that it is unreasonable to ask for these Votes.

Photo of Mr Austen Chamberlain Mr Austen Chamberlain , Birmingham West

Was the right hon. Gentleman present at Question Time, when the Secretary for Mines declined, or, at least, begged to be excused from answering three specific questions on a subject of importance, on the ground that he was going to make a statement on the Report stage? He was pressed again for a specific answer to the specific question, quite apart from the larger statement he wished to make. Therefore, is it not reasonable, when he withholds the information at Question Time, that it should at least be given at an hour which serves the public interest?

Photo of Mr Ramsay Macdonald Mr Ramsay Macdonald , Seaham

I am always sympathetic with the claims of an Opposition. I have spent most of my life in Opposition, and if the right hon. Gentleman will leave it where I have left it, that during the day there will be an opportunity of discussing the reasonableness or unreasonableness of the proposal, I shall be only too glad to come to any agreement.

Photo of Mr Stanley Baldwin Mr Stanley Baldwin , Bewdley

There is one point I would put to the right hon. Gentleman. I notice that the Army Vote is down for Tuesday, and I am informed that the Army Estimates are not yet in the Vote Office. But, first of all, will the right hon. Gentleman tell us the business for next week?

Photo of Mr Ramsay Macdonald Mr Ramsay Macdonald , Seaham

I am not going to complain that the right hon. Gentleman is disclosing secrets. The business for next week will be:

Monday: The Motion in the name of the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs approving Accession to the General Act for the Pacific Settlement of International Disputes.

Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday: We propose to move Mr. Speaker out of the Chair on going into Committee of Supply on the Army, Navy and Air Estimates respectively, and to take the following essential Votes in Committee of Supply:

Tuesday: Army Estimates, Votes A, 1, 10, 13, 14 and 15.

Wednesday: Navy Estimates, Votes A, 1, 10 and 2; Supplementary Estimate, 1930, and Excess Vote, 1929.

Thursday: Air Estimates, Votes A, 1, 4, 3 and 8.

Friday: Small Landholders and Agricultural Holdings (Scotland) Bill, further stages.

The Army Estimates will be published to-night. The Navy Estimates have been circulated this morning. The Army Estimates and the Air Estimates will be available to-morrow morning. As a matter of fact, I believe that if hon. Members will go to the Vote Office, they will find them to-night, but they will be circulated tomorrow.

Photo of Mr Dennis Herbert Mr Dennis Herbert , Watford

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider one point with regard to the Report stage of these two Supplementary Estimates? The first one deals, I believe, with the question of the Washington Embassy. Some of my hon. Friends will take same time to discuss that, but I want the Prime Minister to be good enough specially to consider the second one—the Mines Department Vote. That Supplementary Estimate deals with an entirely new service, and when it was taken in Committee the Secretary for Mines admitted that he was not prepared with full in- formation on some of the points about which he was asked, and he explained that he thought the full information would be given on the ordinary Estimates. Of course, there have been no ordinary Estimates at present, it being an entirely new service, and when a new service is first introduced on a Supplementary Estimate, the proper course is for the House to obtain full information and to discuss the matter.

I desire to submit to the Prime Minister, with all respect, that in the circumstances the discussion of this very important matter of the setting up of the Reorganisation Commission, dealt with as a new service in this Supplementary Estimate, is one to which ample time should be given, and I would even venture to submit that it should be taken before 11 o'clock. [Interruption.] If he has already done so, I apologise. The other day I certainly understood from what the First Commissioner of Works said, that this would be taken before 11 o'clock, but I do ask the Prime Minister, even if he should press the first Vote—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh!"]—I hope he will take both Votes before 11 o'clock, but I make a special plea with regard to this new service that it should be taken before 11, and certainly not following upon some other business after 11 o'clock.

Photo of Mr Ramsay Macdonald Mr Ramsay Macdonald , Seaham

I have gone as far as I can and I hope no hon. Member will assume that what I have said is that both or either must be taken before Eleven o'clock. We must certainly get the first Vote to-night.

Photo of Sir William Mitchell-Thomson Sir William Mitchell-Thomson , Croydon South

I was the person concerned in the pledge given by the First Commissioner of Works, who I am sure will corroborate me. When the first Vote was on the Order Paper on the 23rd of February the First Commissioner came to me and asked how long I thought it was likely to take. I was not aware of the criticisms to be made, but I consulted my hon. Friends and they said about two hours. I conveyed that information to the First Commissioner of Works and he thereupon suggested that we should let him have the Committee stage on the understanding that there would be a reasonable discussion upon Report. On that undertaking my friends and I agreed not to take the Vote on the Committee stage. There is a strong case for the second Vote, but I think the case with regard to the first Vote is even stronger.

Motion made, and Question put,

"That the Proceedings on the Report of Supply [23rd and 26th February] be exempted, at this day's Sitting, from the provisions of the Standing Order (Sittings of the House)."—[The Prime Minister.]

The House divided: Ayes, 260; Noes, 156.

Division No. 183.]AYES.[4.18 p.m.
Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West)Graham, Rt. Hon. Wm. (Edin., Cent.)Mander, Geoffrey le M.
Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock)Gray, MilnerManning, E. L.
Addison, Rt. Hon. Dr. ChristopherGreenwood, Rt. Hon. A. (Colne)Mansfield, W.
Altchison, Rt. Hon. Craigle M.Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan)March, S.
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V.(Hillsbro')Griffith, F. Kingsley (Middlesbro' W.)Marcus, M.
Alpass, J. H.Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool)Marley, J.
Ammon, Charles GeorgeGroves, Thomas E.Marshall, F.
Angell, Sir NormanGrundy, Thomas W.Mathers, George
Arnott, JohnHall, F. (York, W.R., Normanton)Matters, L. W.
Attlee, Clement RichardHall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil)Maxton, James
Ayles, WalterHall, J. H (Whitechapel)Melville, Sir James
Baker, John (Wolverhampton, Bilston)Hall, Capt. W. G. (Portsmouth, C.)Messer, Fred
Baldwin, Oliver (Dudley)Hamilton, Mary Agnes (Blackburn)Middleton, G.
Barr, JamesHamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Zetland)Millar, J. D.
Batey, JosephHardie, George D.Mills, J. E.
Beckett, John (Camberwell, Peckham)Hastings, Dr. SomervilleMorley, Ralph
Benn, Rt. Hon. WedgwoodHaycock, A. W.Morris, Rhys Hopkins
Bennett, William (Battersea, South)Hayday, ArthurMorris-Jones, Dr. J. H. (Denbigh)
Benson, G.Henderson, Arthur, Junr. (Cardiff, S.)Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Hackney, S.)
Bevan, Aneurln (Ebbw Vale)Henderson, Thomas (Glasgow)Morrison, Robert C. (Tottenham, N.)
Blindell, JamesHenderson, W. W. (Middx., Enfield)Mort, D. L.
Bondfield, Rt. Hon. MargaretHerriotts, J.Muff, G.
Bowen, J. W.Hirst, G. H. (York W. R. Wentworth)Muggeridge, H. T.
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W.Hirst, W. (Bradford, South)Murnin, Hugh
Broad, Francis AlfredHoffman, P. C.Noel Baker, P. J.
Brockway, A. FennerHore-Belisha, Leslie.Noel-Buxton, Baroness (Norfolk, N.)
Bromfield, WilliamHudson, James H. (Huddersfield)Oldfield, J. R.
Brooke, W.Hunter, Dr. JosephOliver, George Harold (Ilkeston)
Brothers, M.Isaacs, GeorgeOliver, P. M. (Man., Blackley)
Brown, Rt. Hon. J. (South Ayrshire)Jenkins, Sir WilliamOwen, Major G. (Carnarvon)
Buchanan, G.Jones, F. Llewellyn- (Flint)Palin, John Henry
Burgess, F. G.Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown)Paling, Wilfrid
Buxton, C. R. (Yorks, W. R. Elland)Jones, Rt. Hon. Leif (Camborne)Palmer, E. T.
Carter, W. (St. Pancras, S.W.)Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly)Perry, S. F.
Charleton, H. C.Jowitt, Rt. Hon. F. W.Peters, Dr. Sidney John
Chater, DanielJowitt Sir W. A. (Preston)Pethick-Lawrence, F. W.
Church, Major A. G.Kedward R. M. (Kent, Ashford)Phillips, Dr. Marion
Clarke, J. S.Kelly, W. T.Picton-Turbervill, Edith
Cluse, W. S.Kennedy, Rt. Hon. ThomasPole, Major D. G.
Clynes, Rt. Hon. John R.Kenworthy, Lt.-Com. Hon. Joseph M.Potts, John S.
Cocks, Frederick SeymourKinley, J.Price, M. P.
Compton, JosephKirkwood, D.Pybus, Percy John
Cove, William G.Knight, HolfordQuibell, D. F. K.
Cowan, D. M.Lambert, Rt. Hon. George (S. Molton)Ramsay, T. B. Wilson
Cripps, Sir StaffordLang, GordonRathbone, Eleanor
Daggar, GeorgeLansbury, Rt. Hon. GeorgeRaynes, W. R.
Dallas, GeorgeLathan, G.Richards, R.
Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton)Law, Albert (Bolton)Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring)
Denman, Hon. R. D.Law, A. (Rossendale)Ritson, J.
Devlin, JosephLawrence, SusanRoberts, Rt. Hon. F. O.(W. Bromwich)
Dudgeon, Major C. R.Lawson, John JamesRomeril, H. G.
Dukes, C.Lawther W. (Barnard Castle)Rosbotham, D. S. T.
Duncan, CharlesLeach, W.Rothschild, J. de
Ede, James ChuterLee, Frank (Derby, N.E.)Rowson, Guy
Edmunds, J. E.Lee, Jennie (Lanark, Northern)Russell, Richard John (Eddisbury)
Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty)Lees, J.Salter, Dr. Alfred
Egan, W. H.Lewis, T. (Southampton)Samuel, Rt. Hon. Sir H. (Darwen)
Elmley, ViscountLogan, David GilbertSamuel, H. Walter (Swansea, West)
England, Colonel A.Longbottom, A. W.Sanders, W. S.
Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.)Longden, F.Sawyer, G. F.
Foot, IsaacLovat-Fraser, J. A.Scrymgeour, E.
Freeman, PeterLowth, ThomasSexton, Sir James
Gardner, B. W. (West Ham, Upton)Lunn, WilliamShakespeare, Geoffrey H.
George, Rt. Hon. D. Lloyd (Car'vn)Macdonald, Gordon (Ince)Shaw, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Preston)
George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke)MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Seaham)Shepherd, Arthur Lewis
George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesea)McElwee, A.Sherwood, G. H.
Gibson, H. M. (Lanes. Mossley)McEntee, V. L.Shield, George William
Gill. T. H.McGovern, J. (Glasgow, Shettleston)Shiels, Dr. Drummond
Glassey, A. E.Maclean, Nell (Glasgow, Govan)Shillaker, J. F
Gossling, A. G.Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I.Shinwell, E.
Gould, F.McShane, John JamesShort, Alfred (Wednesbury)
Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton)Malone, C. L'Estrange (N'thampton)Simmons, C. J.
Sinclair, Sir A. (Caithness)Thomas, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Derby)Welsh, James C. (Coatbridge)
Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe)Thorne, W. (West Ham, Plaistow)West, F. R.
Smith, Frank (Nuneaton)Thurtle, ErnestWestwood, Joseph
Smith, H. B. Lees (Keighley)Tillett, BenWhiteley, Wilfrid (Birm., Ladywood)
Smith, Rennle (Penistone)Tinker, John JosephWilliams, David (Swansea, East)
Smith, Tom (Pontefract)Toole, JosephWilliams, Dr. J. H. (Llanelly)
Smith, w. R. (Norwich)Townend, A. E.Williams, T. (York, Don Valley)
Snell, HarryVaughan, DavidWilson, J. (Oldham)
Snowden, Thomas (Accrington)Viant, S. P.Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow)
Sorensen, R.Walker, J.Winterton, G. E.(Leicester, Loughb'gh)
Stamford, Thomas W.Wallace, H. W.Wood, Major McKenzie (Banff)
Stephen, CampbellWatkins, F. C.Young, R. S. (Islington, North)
Stewart, J. (St. Rollox)Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline)
Strauss, G. R.Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. JoslahTELLERS FOR THE AYES.
Sullivan, J.Wellock, WilfedMr. Alien Parkinson and Mr. Hayes.
Sutton, J. E.Welsh, James (Paisley)
NOES.
Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-ColonelFerguson, Sir JohnOrmsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William
Ainsworth, Lieut.-Col. CharlesFielden, E. B.Penny, Sir George
Albery, Irving JamesForestier-Walker, Sir L.Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings)
Allen, Sir J. Sandeman (Liverp'l., W.)Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E.Peto, Sir Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple)
Allen, Lt.-Col. Sir William (Armagh)Ganzonl, Sir JohnPownall, Sir Assheton
Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S.Gauit, Lieut.-Col. A. HamiltonRawson, Sir Cooper
Atholl, Duchess ofGlyn, Major R. G. C.Reid, David D. (County Down)
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley (Bewdley)Graham, Fergus (Cumberland, N.)Rentoul, Sir Gervais S.
Balniel, LordGrenfell, Edward C. (City of London)Reynolds, Col. Sir James
Beaumont M. W.Gretton, Colonel Rt. Hon. JohnRoss, Ronald D.
Betterton, Sir Henry B.Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E.Ruggles-Brise, Lieut.-Colonel E. A.
Birchall, Major Sir John DearmanGunston, Captain D. W.Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth)
Bird, Ernest RoyHacking, Rt. Hon. Douglas H.Salmon, Major I.
Bourne, Captain Robert CroftHall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich)Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham)
Bowater, Col. Sir T. VansittartHamilton, Sir George (Ilford)Sandeman, Sir N. Stewart
Bowyer, Captain Sir George E. W.Hammersley, S. S.Savery, S. S.
Boyce, LeslieHannon, Patrick Joseph HenryShepperson, Sir Ernest Whitt[...]e
Bracken, B.Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes)Simms, Major-General J.
Briscoe, Richard GeorgeHenderson, Capt. R. R.(Oxf'd, Henley)Sinclair, Col. T. (Queen's U., Belfast)
Brown, Col. D. C. (N'th'l'd., Hexham)Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P.Skelton, A. N.
Brown, Brig.-Gen.H.C.(Berks, Newb'y)Herbert, Sir Dennis (Hertford)Smith, Louis W. (Sheffield, Hallam)
Buchan, JohnHills, Major Rt. Hon. John WallerSmith, R.W.(Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.)
Bullock, Captain MalcolmHoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G.Smith-Carington, Neville W.
Burton, Colonel H. W.Horne, Rt. Hon. Sir Robert S.Smithers, Waidron
Butler. R. A.Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.)Somerset, Thomas
Campbell, E. T.Hurd, Percy A.Somerville, A. A. (Windsor)
Carver, Major W. H.Hurst, Sir Gerald B.Somerville, D. G. (Willesden, East)
Castle Stewart, Earl ofInskip, Sir ThomasSouthby, Commander A. R. J.
Cautley, Sir Henry S.Iveagh, Countess ofSpender-Clay, Colonel H.
Cazalet, Captain Victor A.Lamb, Sir J. Q.Stanley, Lord (Fylde)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. Sir J.A.(Birm., W.)Lane Fox, Col. Rt. Hon. George R.Stanley, Hon. O (Westmorland)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Edgbaston)Law, Sir Alfred (Derby, High Peak)Steel-Maitland, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur
Chapman, Sir S.Leighton, Major B. E. P.Stewart, W. J. (Belfast South)
Christie, J. A.Lewis, Oswald (Colchester)Sueter, Rear-Admiral M. F.
Colfox, Major William PhilipLocker-Lampson, Rt. Hon. GodfreyTaylor, Vice-Admiral E. A.
Colville, Major D. J.Lockwood, Captain J. H.Thomas, Major L. B. (King's Norton)
Courthope, Colonel Sir G. L.Long, Major Hon. EricTitchfield, Major the Marquess of
Cranborne, ViscountMcConnell, Sir JosephWallace, Capt. D. E. (Hornsey)
Crookshank, Cpt. H. (Lindsey, Gainsbro)Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.)Ward. Lieut.-Col. Sir A. Lambert
Culverwell, C. T. (Bristol, West)Macquisten, F. A.Wardlaw-Milne, J. S.
Dalkeith, Earl ofMakins, Brigadier-General E.Warrender, Sir Victor
Dalrymple-White, Lt.-Col. Sir GodfreyMargesson, Captain H. D.Waterhouse, Captain Charles
Davidson, Rt. Hon. J. (Hertford)Marjoribanks, EdwardWells, Sydney R.
Davies, Maj. Geo. F.(Somerset, Yeovil)Mason, Colonel Glyn K.Williams, Charles (Devon, Torquay)
Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.)Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham)Wilson, G. H. A. (Cambridge U.)
Dixon, Captain Rt. Hon. HerbertMitchell-Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W.Windsor Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George
Dugdale, Capt. T. L.Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. Sir B.Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Eden, Captain AnthonyMulrhead, A. J.Withers, Sir John James
Edmondson, Major A. J.Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge)Womersley, W. J.
Elliot, Major Walter E.Nicholson, Col. Rt. Hn. W.G.(Ptrsf'ld)Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley
Erskine, Lord (Somerset,Weston-s.-M.)Nield, Rt. Hon. Sir Herbert
Everard, W. LindsayO'Connor, T. J.TELLERS FOR THE NOES.
Falle, Sir Bertram G.O'Neill, Sir H.Major Sir George Hennessy and
Sir Frederick Thomson.