Orders of the Day — New Clause. — (Payment of benefits in respect of persons under sixteen.)

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at on 10 December 1929.

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Photo of Mr Leslie Hore-Belisha Mr Leslie Hore-Belisha , Plymouth, Devonport

I quite agree that no recollection could be more poignant or sentimental than the recollection of the first day on which a boy took back his wages to his mother, but I hope that no confusion of thought will arise on account of that. We are not dealing in this Bill with the disposition of the first wages of a boy. We are not dealing with his first employment. We are dealing with his first unemployment. I think that no Member of the Committee could be so individualistic as to maintain that it was a matter of indifference as to what the child did with this money. If you look at recent legislation you realise that we have safeguarded the child under 16 with a particular care. Only a fortnight ago, under the Contributory Pensions Bill, we raised the age from 14 to 16 in respect of which an allowance might be paid to the mother for her child. Why should you differentiate within a fortnight between the child in respect of whom a mother is to draw a pension under the Contributory Pensions Act and in respect of the child that comes under this Bill?

The Children Act, for which my right hon. Friend the Member for Darwen (Sir H. Samuel) was responsible, made it a penal offence to sell spirits to a child under 16. The child under 16 is not allowed to buy tobacco or cigarettes. Special Courts, the juvenile Courts, are established for young persons, who are not allowed to be tried either in the same place or at the same time as older offenders. They cannot be conveyed to and from the Court in the same vehicles as older offenders. This Bill is professedly introduced in order to spare the child from unpleasant contacts, but what contact could be more unpleasant than the contact of a child with the grinding machinery of the Employment Exchange? It is in order to spare the child that contact that I have drafted this Clause. But I go further in reference to past legislation. The legal responsibility for maintaining a child rests upon the parents; a Board of Guardians can require the parents to contribute to the support of a child. Why should you make an exception in this Bill? Surely the benefit ought to be paid where the responsibility rests?

What happened on the Second Reading of the Bill? Where did the whole weight of the argument lie? My hon. Friend the Member for Bridgeton (Mr. Maxton) made a very passionate and moving speech, in which he talked about the responsibility of parents in maintaining their children. This Bill does not bring a penny into the pockets of the breadwinner, of the head of the family. It enables benefit to be paid to a child of 16. That does not enable the persons about whom my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgeton was talking, to purchase more books or more food for their children. The Bill simply puts money, without condition, in very unfortunate circumstances, into the pockets of children. What can be the objection to this Clause It may be said that the decent child already takes the money home to his parents. Are you going to give a legislative advantage to the child who is not decent, to the child who stops on the way home and, although he knows that the larder may be empty, prefers not to take that money home? The decent child, anyhow, will take the money home. I want to secure that the money shall go into the home in all circumstances, whether the child be good or be bad.

What is another objection to the Clause? It is said that wages are paid to the child when it is in work. Certainly they are. What did the Minister say? She said she wished to inculcate habits of independence in the child. What could be a greater stimulus to the child than to know that if it gets a job it will be able to enjoy the pride of taking its wages home, whereas if it does not get a job, its mother will get the money, and if it is a proud thing to take home the wages that you have earned, who can say it is an enviable thing to be able to take home a dole which you have not earned? Would hon. Members opposite who have told me how proud they were to take home their wages have been equally proud to take home something that they have not earned? What credit could possibly rest upon the child for taking home something that was doled out to it in the Employment Exchange?

Hon. Members have to make up their minds. They cannot talk about the deprivation of the home and reject this Clause. If their desire is to give the mothers the benefit of the money, so that they can keep their children in good health and good condition, they cannot vote against the Clause, for it has nothing to do with money that is earned. It is to do with money that is unearned. Some hon. Members opposite suffer from the delusion that they can redress the inequalities of society by giving 6s. a week to a child, or any other sum of money to any other human being. The inequalities in this social world of ours arise, not because of an uneven distribution of wealth, but because of an uneven distribution of opportunity. What differentiates the child who leaves the council school at the age of 15 from the child who goes to Eton at 15, is not 6s. a week, but an entirely different, opportunity. I want to establish 'this principle, that maintenance grants shall be paid to parents, so that you will create no vested interest in unemployment, but will rather create a vested interest in raising the school-leaving age to 16. I wish hon. Members opposite had taken the great opportunity that presents itself to them of raising the school age to 16 and thus doing away with the gap, rather than lowering the age at which the child is stamped with the brand of Cain. Therefore I move the Clause with great confidence, because it secures that the money you are giving to the child shall be spent in the best interest of the child and because, also, it is a recognition of the responsibilities of motherhood.