Clause 1. — (Extension of right to widows' pensions.)

Part of Orders of the Day — Widows', Orphans' and Old Age Contributory Pensions Bill. – in the House of Commons at on 11 November 1929.

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Photo of Mr George Buchanan Mr George Buchanan , Glasgow Gorbals

I would like the Minister of Health to answer a question which I put to him in a previous Debate, namely, whether this Clause means that the widow of 55 and over, if she is out of employment, is treated in exactly the same way as the old age pensioner is treated; that is to say, that she cannot receive unemployment benefit. I cannot follow the Parliamentary Secretary's reasoning. When you come to discuss hard cases, there is no difference between widows of 30, 45 and 55. One can pick a group from each of these ages, and see the hard cases and the less hard. We need to take each individual case. I could argue that the case of 40 was possibly the hardest of all, because, generally speaking, at that age the widow has young children. I am thinking for the moment of the case of my sister of 40, who is a widow with three children, drawing a pension. At 45, she will be in a better position to do without it than she is at the moment, because her children will then be able to work and bring in some emoluments to keep the family. I do not think that you can make a general statement that 55 is a hard case and that 45 is not quite so hard, any more than you can say that 45 is a hard case and 55 is less hard. What we have to face is that the bulk of all classes of widows are hard cases and deserving of pensions. I do not think that anybody will deny that almost every class of widow, with the exception of a few very young widows, who belong to the working-classes, are deserving of attention, need a pension, and ought to receive it.

There is only one line of defence, though with a twofold aspect, given by the Parliamentary Secretary. I do not wish to appear ultra critical, but I would ask her to reconsider the whole question. Nobody can say that any class is more deserving than another when it comes to age, and a general statement does not suffice. We have been told, first, that Parliamentary time will be given for another Measure to he introduced later, and secondly that financial considerations required this age limit to be introduced. As to the financial considerations, I can not see where there will be more money any other year than there is this year. After all, the taxable extent of the community is not likely to rise considerably during our term of office. But why wait on financial considerations. Why cannot we pass the legislation now, and state that the date on which it will come into operation is to be delayed for some time in order to allow us to collect the necessary money? We could delay the date for 18 months in order to allow the nation to carry out its financial obligations, but the main point would have been achieved of including the widows in an Act of Parliament.

When I hear talk of another Bill, I say frankly that I am a little bit sceptical of other Bills. The Government are piling up Bills. I am not without some knowledge of Parliament and its ways and I note that already this Government are committed to a score of very big Measures. I see a Coal Bill is to be introduced, and there are to be Bills dealing with trade disputes and unemployment insurance. In regard to the last named Bill, there again we are told that it is only the first Bill, and that there is going to be another. Then there is to be a Factories Bill, a Bill dealing with the Washington Convention on hours of labour, a Transport Bill, a Bill for acquiring land and a Workmen's Compensation Bill.

I confess that I am terribly worried. I am frank on this, I am honest on this. I have to consider terribly poor people. They are the people amongst whom I was horn and with whom I have lived all my life. Everything I wear on my back and the home I have, such as it is, has been given to me by terribly poor people, and I would sooner go out of public life than not be honest with them. I do not make that as idle brag. My Parliamentary in come is the only income I have got; the only job I am likely to get at the moment is here in Parliament, and I do not want to leave it. I am not a good platform speaker and I detest public meetings, but I have one quality and that is that I have constantly kept my word to the poor and I feel in my innermost heart that I am not quite honest about this—deep down in my heart not quite sincere about it.

Could not we get from the Parliamentary Secretary a definite pledge as to the date on which the new Bill is to be introduced? Could we not post date the Bill now? I am a Parliamentarian and one who believes in politics. I believe in political considerations, considerations of time, in consideration of one's opponents—compromise, if you care. I am sometimes blamed for being extreme in my views, but I am, perhaps, the most moderate member of my party. At the last election I refused to issue the orthodox Labour party manifesto because it granted more than I believed they could give; it was too extreme for me. I was moderate in the fighting of my election.

When I was in my Division a week last Friday, I heard of a woman of 32 with three children who is not going to get the pension and a woman of 45 who will not get the pension. Both of them need it and deserve it, and think they ought to get it. Why should not we take steps to give it to them now? What are the political reasons? The Liberal party are not going to oppose. It cannot be a question of loss of votes. There is nothing which would so much increase our prestige in the country. At The Hague, we earned the reputation of being a bold Government. Why not be as bold over this question of widows' pensions as we were when fighting the French Chancellor? Why not be bold when it comes to a question of human nature and human desire? I have no wish to be a martyr. I have no wish to earn the false cheers of my opponents—not at all; but I have a great desire to keep faith with the poor I represent. They have given me everything I have in life, and I should be false to them and false to every political conviction I have, if I allowed this Measure to pass to night without entering a twofold protest.

First, I think every widow of the working class should have the pension. There is no justification for a difference in age. All of them are in need. Take my own case. I do not happen to have any family, but I would be terribly annoyed if to-morrow the cruel hand of fate swept me aside, and I left my wife without means to carry on. There is not a Member sitting on the Treasury Bench who does not, out of his income, set aside a certain sum every year to provide for his widow in case he dies, but they have emoluments which allow them to do so. Why should not they translate into State action what they do for their own wives and their own families? I remember that the Lord Privy Seal was told that during the General Strike he crawled in order to get peace. To-night I would plead, and, if you care to put it so, crawl in order to get for these poor people something—though it is not justice, not the full life that I would like to see them have. I plead with the Government, in their first year of office, to show to the widows and children that they are their friends, and that the party opposite are the party of reaction who in the past have denied them their just and legitimate rights; show them that we are a Government which can be bold when dealing with the interests of our women and children.