Orders of the Day — Coast Protection Bill.

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at on 29 October 1929.

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Photo of Mr Philip Lloyd-Greame Mr Philip Lloyd-Greame , Hendon

The right hon. Gentleman has introduced a Bill which is substantial not only in its length but in its importance. He is quite right in saying that if I had occupied his place to-day I should have introduced a Bill of some sort dealing with this matter. I am not sure that the final form of the Bill which I should have presented would have been quite the same as the form in which this Bill now stands, but I have always thought, and I have said so on several occasions, that when Parliamentary time was available it was very desirable that Parliament should deal with the question of coast erosion, and that it was essentially a matter which the House of Commons ought to mould, in the light of its own experience.

While the Bill does not raise party issues it does raise important questions of administration, local and national administration, which are just the kind of questions which the House of Commons ought carefully to consider, having regard not only to the individual proposals that find their place in a Measure like this, but also the kind of precedents which are being created. Hon. Members who sit for constituencies on the sea coast and who have personal experience of the problems which are raised in this Measure and also experience of local administration in dealing with these problems, are exactly the kind of people to consider in detail a Bill of this kind, and to mould it in its most convenient form. Certainly, were I in the right hon. Gentleman's place I should welcome the most careful and detailed consideration of the Bill in Committee, and any criticisms and constructive suggestions that might be made.

The Bill really divides itself into two parts. It makes two main proposals. The first proposal for dealing with coast erosion is by the constitution of new and combined authorities, on the lines indicated by the right hon. Gentleman. While there may be criticism in regard to detail and principle, I think that, on the whole, after mature consideration, most hon. Members will agree that some plan of that kind is right and necessary. The Bill also contains other provisions, which were dealt with rather lightly, I thought, by the right hon. Gentleman. It is proposed to vest in the Board of Trade very large new powers. Let me deal first with the proposals in Clause 8 and the Second Schedule, to set up the new authorities. Anyone considering a proposal of this kind for the first time would probably approach it with a natural aversion to establishing any more new bodies or new authorities, with a natural aversion to establishing any new staffs and, still more, with a natural aversion to establishing any new bodies with new powers of levying rates. That point was raised by my hon. and learned Friend the Member for East Grinstead (Sir H. Cautley) when he asked what direct or indirect representation on these authorities would there be for those people who would be called upon to pay the bill. That is the kind of very relevant criticism which has to be raised and must be satisfactorily met in Committee.

That may be the first impression of these proposals, but when you go more closely into the problem of coast erosion you find that, in order to deal effectively and economically with coast erosion, any proposals you make inevitably overrun the boundaries of existing local authorities. It has been pointed out to me very often that if we could do some comparatively small protective work at a particular point on the coast we might, at relatively little expense, protect not so much that particular part of the coast but we might be protecting in far and away the most effective and economical way large tracts of country which lie to the north or south of it on the coastline. To-day, that particular point, which could be a strong point against the encroachment of the sea, may be outside the area of certain authorities. It is necessary to construct some coast defence works at that point, but very likely the area itself is poor and not greatly interested in the other parts to be protected. There is, I believe, no power to-day for the various local authorities to combine and raise the necessary funds to engage in joint operations.

When we come to a case like that—hon. Members who sit for constituencies most affected will probably have similar examples which they can quote from their own experience—we come to the need for collaboration, and probably the only way or the best way, which was recommended by the Royal Commission, to secure that collaboration is by some sort of combined authority, on which all the areas and all the interests will be represented and where all local authorities, port and harbour authorities, individuals or corporations will be able to find some representation, in order most economically and efficiently to engage in an operation which is for the benefit of all. Speaking for myself I welcome, on the whole, the power to create a special authority of this kind, and I agree that when we get into Committee on the Bill it will be very important to see what is the best form of organisation. If it can be shown that, without the creation of some entirely new body, there is a practical way of enabling existing authorities and existing corporations to combine for this purpose, I am sure the right hon. Gentleman will give any such alternative his careful consideration; but some form of collaboration is absolutely necessary if effective and economical protection against coast erosion is to be given.

Now, I turn to the provisions in the Bill which give new powers to the Board of Trade. The House and the right hon. Gentleman will agree that if it is proposed to vest in any Government department—even the best of all Government Departments, the Board of Trade—large new powers, a strong case must be made for the vesting of those powers and for the manner in which those powers, if they are given, are to be exercised. The Clauses which deal with this matter are Clauses 1 to 7. Clause 1, as the right hon. Gentleman said, is not very important. All that Clause 1 does is to vest in the Board of Trade powers which to-day are vested in other Government Departments, chiefly the Commissioners of Lands. Therefore, we are granting no new powers to a Government. All that is proposed by Clause 1 is that the powers which exist to-day shall be exercised by one Department, and that the Department primarily charged with the responsibility for coast defence. That seems to be a practical and reasonable proposal.

Clause 2, so far as I can follow it, is incidental to that. Perhaps some provision might be inserted in that Clause or elsewhere to ensure, what I am sure would be the right hon. Gentleman's wish, that in exercising these powers special consideration should always be given to local interests. There are many farmers, many fishermen, and many local authorities who are interested in getting gravel, shingle and sand from the sea shore, and it is very important in the exercising of the powers conferred by the Bill that very careful and sympathetic consideration should be given to these interests. I am sure that would be the wish of the right hon. Gentleman and of the officials of the Board of Trade, but we are legislating in this Bill for all time, and therefore when I make a suggestion of that kind, or any criticism of the powers proposed to be conferred, I do so because it is necessary for the House carefully to consider what the powers are. In so doing, the House must not consider whether it will be the right hon. Gentleman or I who will have to administer the Bill, but they must remember that these powers, when once given, will be administered by various people. It has been the practice of the House to examine very closely all powers given to Government Departments.

I should like to know whether there is anything in the definition of foreshore and seashore in the Bill which alters the law as it stands to-day. There has been some criticism of the Bill to the effect that by the definition included in the Bill some additional powers were being given which were not very clear, or that the ordinary definition of foreshore was being altered. I am not sufficiently technical to know whether that is so or not, but it is a criticism which is being raised in some quarters, and any doubts on the matter ought to be effectively set at rest.