Ministry of Pensions.

Part of Class Viii. – in the House of Commons at on 13 July 1927.

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Photo of Mr George Tryon Mr George Tryon , Brighton

What I say is that the hon. Member in his statement said one of these firms was a "Yankee firm" and the other was a Belgian firm. One of them is not an American firm selling in Great Britain, but a British firm selling to America, and 50 per cent. of their employés are ex-service men. The other firm referred to is registered in this country and has works here, and 70 per cent. of their employés are ex-service men. I know the hon. Member for Gorbals did take some steps to verify his information by putting down a ques- tion, to ascertain whether there was any truth in his statement. I have already dealt with the cases of amputations below the knee, and now I come to the far more serious and wider problem of the seven years' limit. As is well known, that was the unanimous decision of the House of Commons, and it has been maintained by successive Governments. It is true that in some cases other countries have extended their period but that is because they adopted a much shorter period in the first instance. Experience seems to suggest that our period was the right one. There are two ways of looking at this problem. One is to deal with the exceptional case which is undoubtedly due to the War, and we are making grants in such cases at the present time. The other is the proposal of the right hon. Gentleman opposite to abolish the time limit.

But his policy must be considered as a whole. The Committee must bear in mind that my right hon. Friend who was Minister of Pensons in the Labour Government was responsible for bringing in a Bill under which every injury was to be taken as being due to the War unless the contrary was proved. That means to say that in the absence of all evidence those men are to have pensions at once, and, if we find out afterwards that there is no foundation for their claims, then the pensions will have to be stopped. This proposal, of course, does not help the men injured in the War and it puts those who have made out claims for their pensions under the present scheme at a great disadvantage. You have in this country 5,000,000 ex-service men, of whom perhaps 1,000,000 have not been overseas. A considerable number of them were in England, and only joined after the War which only ended legally in 1921. That means that all those men could get sickness benefit at war rates at any time for the rest of their lives in the absence of evidence of any kind except evidence to show that they were in the Army for a short time.

All these men could go before the tribunal over and over again. This would lead to chaos in the administration. It could not be taken as an amendment of the existing Warrant, and it would be simply what is known as a wrecking amend- ment. It would wreck the whole pension system of this country, and would not only treat most unfairly ex-service men who fought in the War and whose cases had been already settled after the War, but would also be grossly unfair to the rest of the civilian population. If, 20 or 30 years after the War, two men happened to fall sick of some prevailing epidemic, and one suddenly remembered that he had been in the Army for a few weeks, possibly after the War stopped, at once the Ministry would have to pay him a full pension in respect of sickness which was not due to the War. Some hon. Members would, perhaps, agree with that, but I say that it would be grossly unfair to the other man.