Orders of the Day — Tithe Bill.

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at on 19 November 1925.

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Photo of Mr Worthington Evans Mr Worthington Evans , Colchester

This Amendment is one of several Amendments which seek to vary the figure at which the Government think tithe should be stabilised. On the one side we have those who wish to stabilise it at 100; we have the 102½ of this Amendment; we have the 105 of the Bill and the 115 of my right hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge University (Mr. Rawlinson)—in an Amendment which he moved in Committee but has not repeated to-day—and there is also the right hon. and gallant Gentleman the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Colonel Wedgwood), who desires that it should be 110. We have all these different figures suggested as the right amount at which tithe should be stabilised. The figure which the Government have inserted in the Bill, namely, 105, has been arrived at after a really exhaustive inquiry. It has been said that Sir Charles Longmore is not an authority, but he, Sir Henry Rew, and Mr. Le Fanu, sat as a Committee in 1923 and took evidence from the various parties, and they came to the conclusion that 104 was the figure which should be adopted for the purposes of redemption, which was the immediate object of their inquiry. Then, when this Bill was being prepared, Sir Charles Longmore was asked to give his opinion as to the figure which should be put in, and he had before him all the evidence that was to be got before he gave that figure of 105.

I do not pretend that anyone can prophesy accurately what the prices of agricultural produce or of the three cereals concerned are going to be for the next 85 years. Of course, no one can; but I will say this, that Sir Charles Longmore, having taken that evidence, is, with his experience, as likely to be right as anyone else. The Debate we have had this afternoon shows the great variation of opinion among those who know, because both the Mover and the Seconder of this Amendment are men whose opinions are entitled to respect. They thoroughly understand agricultural matters, and have both studied this question, and, far from speaking for their personal interests, I am perfectly certain that the whole House knows that they have only spoken in order to improve this Bill if they can. I wish I could accept their Amendment, but I cannot do so.

My hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Faversham (Sir G. Wheler) suggested that the Government should make a concession, but how can the Government make a concession? What concession is there that the Government can make? Make it 2½. From whom would the 2½ come? It is quite easy for the Government to say, "Yes, 2½." The 21 then comes from the pockets of the clergy, and unless we believe that 102½ is a fairer figure than 105, we cannot possibly accept the Amendment, and we do not believe it is a fairer figure. We believe 105 is the fairest figure that can be accepted. My hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr. Lamb) suggested that if it were fixed at 102½, 2½ only should be used instead of 5 for the payment in lieu of rates. I cannot accept that.