Air Estimates and Supplementary Estimate, 1925–26.

Part of Orders of the Day — Supply. – in the House of Commons at on 4 August 1925.

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Photo of Mr Dugald Cowan Mr Dugald Cowan , Combined Scottish Universities

Out of very sincere regard for the Secretary of Scotland, and out of sincere sympathy with him in the trying position in which he finds himself to-day, being under fire from so many quarters, I shall make my observations as brief, and my questions as few, as I possibly can. I wish, indeed, to touch only upon education in two of its aspects. During the past year, we have had a period of quietude in the discussion of educational matters, and that is all to the good, provided that it means a period of reasonable progress. I do not want to enter into that, but I associate myself entirely with the remarks of the hon. Member for Peebles (Mr. Westwood), and I hope the Secretary for Scotland will be able to tell us that the Department is taking definite steps towards securing a reduction in the size of classes and a reasonable amendment and extension of the continuation class code, and also towards making arrangements with regard to the day school certificates such as will give reasonable satisfaction to all concerned.

There is, however, one matter connected with our day schools in Scotland which appears to me to be of paramount importance, and that is the proportion between men and women engaged in our schools. For good or for ill, of recent years, the number of men has been steadily going down. The percentage now is very much smaller than it was, say, 20 years ago. I say that that is happening for good or for ill, but we ought to know for a certainty why it is happening, and whether we approve of it. I understand that the Scottish Education Department has appointed a Sub-Committee of the Consultative Committee to deal with this matter, and I should like to have from the Secretary for Scotland just in a word, when he replies, an assurance that that Sub-Committee is to take all possible steps to get at the reasons for the deficient supply of men, and also to hear whether they are taking steps to come to some reasonable conclusion, as to what the proportion of men and women engaged in our schools should be, and what is the appropriate work that each of the sexes should be called upon to perform. Those are questions which we must face and must answer if we are going to have a system of Scottish education that will be the admiration and, perhaps, the wonder, of Europe.

There was a time when the Scottish educational system was the wonder of the education of Europe. I am not sure that it can be said to be so now, but at any rate, with regard to the particular question I have put, I hope the Secretary for Scotland will see that the action of the Department is followed out to its logical conclusion, and that they will take steps to make sure that the best possible staffs, well-balanced as between the sexes, will be found in our Scottish schools. This matter of education is one upon which we cannot afford to indulge in any false economy. It is not a matter of building cruisers which may be obsolete almost before they are completed, and certainly will be obsolete in a very few years. In this matter of education we are really preparing what will be our first line of defence for the next 20, 30, 40, or 50 years. Therefore, I hope the Secretary for Scotland will do all that he possibly can to ensure that there is not only no backward movement in our educational system, but that there is at least reasonable progress.

There is a second point that I should like to bring to the notice of the right hon. Gentleman, and that is in connection with our agricultural colleges, which are under the Scottish Board of Agriculture. I have had put into my hands a statement on behalf of the staffs of the various agricultural colleges in Scotland, and certainly, from the figures there given, no one could say that the rate of remuneration paid to the staffs is anything like adequate. This matter of the remuneration of the staffs in these colleges is not a new one; it has been, I understand brought before the Scottish Board of Agriculture for years past, but any decision with regard to it has been put off from time to time. The governors of these colleges are unanimous in their claim that the staffs should be better paid, but year after year has gone by, and nothing has been done. On behalf of the staffs of these colleges—I am only putting forward what has been given to me, without committing myself as to whether it is correct—it is stated that the refusal of their request has been largely on the ground that the Treasury object. At the same time they point out that no Treasury objection, apparently, has been made to the increase in the remuneration of the officials of the Board of Agriculture itself. That may be a very human reading, or misreading, of the facts of the case, but I trust that I shall have from the right hon. Gentleman at least a promise that this matter will be looked into. The Constable Committee have reported on it, and I should like to know that something is being done to give effect to their recommendations.

Those are the two questions that I would put to the right hon. Gentleman— firstly, whether steps are being taken to inquire into and come to some decision with regard to the proportion of men and women in our schools in Scotland; and, secondly, whether he will see that steps are taken to secure fair remuneration for the staffs of the agricultural colleges. I do not know very much about agriculture, but I am certain that there will be no advance in our national agricultural system unless we bring to bear upon it the science of these agricultural colleges, and, if the best work is to be obtained from the men and women engaged there, they must have a feeling that their work is appreciated and their services are duly rewarded.