Orders of the Day — Contributorypensionsbill.

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at on 22 July 1925.

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Photo of Mr Wilfred Paling Mr Wilfred Paling , Doncaster

I believe the Chancellor of the Exchequer stated that he was engaged in a series of delicate balancing feats, and that it was a question of balance as between this Bill and the Unemployment Bill, etc., in making them all adjust themselves one to the other. I fancy the Chancellor of the Exchequer, or the Minister of Health, or the Parliamentary Secretary, would have a difficult job to prove to a man of 65 or over, who would have been due 18s.. or in the case of a wife 23s. a week, that it is a delicate balancing feat to bring him from 23s. down to the 10s. proposed under the Bill. I would not apply the term delicate to that, I would rather use my hon. Friend's term. It is more in the nature of robbery to do a thing like that. The Minister complains that this is not a contract, but surely, as the case has been put. many of those people will have been paying to this unemployment fund for a considerable number of years, and in a good many eases they will have received nothing. Surely they have considered that they were paying under a contract and that if ever they were unemployed that contract would be honoured, but apparently ft is not to be if they reach 65 years of age. We learn again to-day— I suppose this is another example of balancing—that there are over 65,000 people who will be affected by this new Clause—65,000 people drawing unemployment pay who will be brought down to 10s. That is one of the methods by which money is going to be saved to the Unemployment Fund at the expense of these 65,000 poor unfortunate beings. I suppose there is another advantage which will be gained by the Government. The unemployment figures, which are so appalling, and which are causing them so much disturbance, will be reduced by this 65,000, and it will count to the advantage of the Government, I suppose, that they have reduced the figures by that amount, making the country believe they have found work for 65,000 people when all they have done is to rob them of anything from 8s. to 13s. a week when they have paid for all these things.

When one looks at the Clause from that point of view, surely hon Members opposite cannot expect us to have anything decent to say about it. It is a most unworthy Clause, and they cannot apply the argument that has been applied to so many of our Amendments, that it was going to cost money to this Fund. They will get the 10s. out of the Fund in any event. Therefore you will not save anything from the Widows and Orphans' and Old Age Pensions Bill. All you will save is from the Unemployment Bill, and you will save money which is due to these people. I appeal to the Parliamentary Secretary to consider it in this light. We have had two Amendments conceded to us. This is an excellent opportunity to perform the hat trick and give us another. I have formed the opinion that the argument which has been offered from this side—real good, solid argument—is beginning to have an effect on the Minister, which has been exemplified by our receiving two concessions. I am equally sure that the arguments which have been adduced on this Amendment are so much stronger that he can have no possible reason for withholding this from us in addition. We appeal to him to do justice to all these 65,000 people, and to have regard to the fact that when a man reaches 65 years of age, the possibility of his becoming unemployed is rather greater than when he is young. The older he gels, the loss he is required by people who want strong men in industry We appeal to the hon. Gentleman from all these points of view to reconsider the Amendment, and see if he cannot give us a third, and at the same time do justice to these people who are going to suffer as a result of the Bill.