Clause 4. — (Termination, of Government liability to make contribution.)

Part of Orders of the Day — Housing (Financial Provisions) Bill. – in the House of Commons at on 21 July 1924.

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Photo of Mr John Wheatley Mr John Wheatley , Glasgow Shettleston

I have no objection to a boom in commercial building, or in any other branch of the industry. So far as I can contribute to it I shall be very glad to do so. But in the view of those people who know the most important consideration is the probability of entirely new methods of construction and new material. I read in the newspaper the other day that the right hon. Member for Twickenham (Sir W. Joynson-Hicks) had been studying bricklaying and that he had been able to lay six bricks a minute. I have not had an opportunity of confirming that statement, but a little arithmetical exercise will enable the Committee to understand that if the right hon. Gentleman could maintain that output for seven hours he would lay something like 2,500 to 3,000 bricks per day. I should not expect the right hon. Gentleman to do that, because he has not had the training and probably his fingers have been used for more delicate purposes, but if the right hon. Gentleman could lay six bricks a minute, a skilled man who was accustomed to the work ought to be able to maintain that speed for seven hours. That would mean that the number of bricks laid would be approximately 10 times the number of bricks which it is said a bricklayer lays to-day.

If new bricklaying methods can be discovered—and I am speaking quite seriously when I say that it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that some new method may be discovered by which a bricklayer can do ten men's work at bricklaying—then, clearly, it would be unreasonable to say that we must recruit the bricklaying industry at the rate that we must recruit it if the present output were maintained. There are many other methods. I do not want to go into them in detail, but I will mention one or two. To-morrow morning I am to inspect a system of building houses largely by steel and timber, which is the product of one of our eminent business men. It is not some fantastic scheme devised by a dreamer, but one submitted by a man who has built up a great reputation in the business world. I have had submitted to me within the last few days, material for erecting houses by one of the best known business men in the country, which he claims would give us more substantial houses, more beautiful houses, houses in a tithe of the time that we now use in producing houses, and cheaper houses, without the service of either bricklayer or plasterer, and with very little service from some of the best known crafts. [An HON. MEMBER: "What was the material?"] It is not necessary to mention the material, but if the material can stand the scientific test, hon. Members may take it from me that it is a material that will be eminently satisfactory in the construction of houses. I have no technical and scientific knowledge to enable me to pass judgment on the value of the material, but taking it at its face value it seems quite possible that it should be successful and there is no reason why it should not succeed. If it does succeed then, quite clearly, the building industry would still require to recruit its personnel, not by taking men into the bricklaying or the joinery and plastering side of the industry but by taking them into the manufacturing of this new material and the building by this new material. We must take all these things into account.

The hon. Member mentioned one point, and it is a point in which the building industry place great interest, and that is, the relation of labour and materials. When I go to the men and I say, "We want you rapidly to recruit your ranks," they invariably say to me, "We can only do it at the rate that you increase the output of materials." These two things must always tend to approximate, otherwise you have men unemployed for lack of materials, or you have the manufacturers of materials afraid that prices will fall because of over-production of the commodity on which they are engaged. Therefore, we have to try to balance the output of men and materials, and that is one of the main purposes for which our national building committees are being set up, and one of the things to which they must turn their thoughts right from the beginning of operations. Moreover, we have to balance the various crafts in the building industry. We may have too many plumbers and not sufficient bricklayers and, consequently, we may have plumbers idle and waiting for the bricklayers, or vice versa. We have to take these things as part of one settled scheme.

Therefore, I came to the conclusion, and I think hon. Members will agree with me, that the most hopeful way of getting these things carefully balanced was mainly by getting the industry itself to provide the proper machinery for doing the work, to give the industry the assistance which the local authorities and the education authorities can give them in carrying out the scheme, and to say to the industry, "You have to satisfy us that you are providing adequate materials and adequate men, and you have also to ensure to us an output of the number of houses stated in the programme which we have laid down." To meet this view, I have drafted an Amendment which I think I can reasonably ask the Committee to accept. In page 5, line 42, at the end, to insert: whether the deficiency is due to the absence of adequate arrangements for the increase in the supply of building labour (including any necessary augmentation of the number of apprentices employed) or for the necessary increase in the supply of materials at reasonable prices or from any other cause. In a general way, without tying ourselves down to particular numbers, if we accept the basis of what we call the "treaty"—the agreement or the understanding with the building industry—that the output of houses is the primary consideration, I think these words cover all that is intended by the Amendment which has been moved. I hope the Committee will see its way to accept this alternative Amendment.