Government Policy.

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at on 14 February 1924.

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Photo of Mr Ramsay Macdonald Mr Ramsay Macdonald , Aberavon

I must be wary with the right hon. Gentleman. The Capital Levy is in exactly the same position as Protection. It cannot be enacted in this Parliament. If my right hon. Friend transfers his seat from there to here he will not, I assume, try to introduce Protection while this Parliament lasts. We shall not deal with the Capital Levy. No change of that character can be made until a majority of the country is in favour of it. I have not the least doubt that my right hon. Friend will go on propagating his doctrine, but until he. or right hon. Members below the Gangway on this side of the House, produce some scheme which will save this country from the exceedingly bad effects, as I think, of a too heavy National Debt, increasing the cost of production, diminishing the purchasing value of money, oppressing the wage-earning classes in the mass, as I think—until the National Debt is diminished and paid by honest means—I regard two means as dishonest, one repudiation and the other inflation—until the National Debt is paid off—"paid off" is too long—until the National Debt is diminished, until its burden becomes of a nature that can be borne by the people, by the whole body of producers, the functions of master and man and so on, I cannot be happy, because I do not believe that the country is going to be free to compete in the markets of the world as soon as we enjoy normal conditions again.

One of my right hon. Friend's colleagues, Lord Birkenhead, went down to my constituency to do his best to defeat me while the battle was still raging. He made a most violent attack upon the Capital Levy, which caused me much amusement, and helped waterially to increase my majority. Having forgotten all about that, and having talked about two columns in the local newspapers, he proceeded to explain why Protection was necessary. One of the reasons he gave why Protection was necessary was that, if we succeeded in putting Germany upon her feet again—Germany have no National Debt, which had disappeared on account of inflation, and we having a National Debt for which we had to pay—we should be cut out of every neutral market by Germany, unless we had Protection. His logic was not quite sound. In any event, his admissions were most valuable to me. I am not discussing the question I am only stating, quite categorically, what is our position until the nation agrees, as I hope it will agree, upon this question. It is not a party cry. Some people imagine that this is a stage to Socialism. It is nothing of the kind. It is a proposal—it may be right or it may be wrong—to ease the burdens of the National Debt which the industry of the country has to bear. It comes out of the pockets of the producer; it cannot come out of anybody else's pocket. Its effect is to redistribute national wealth in a way which I do not believe is economical, and I do not believe that it advances the general social harmony of all classes. However, there the question remains as far as this Parliament is concerned and as far as this Government is concerned. It would be folly for any hon. Members to say that the Government propose to introduce a Capital Levy in this Parliament, and it would be equally folly for the Government to entertain any idea of doing anything of the kind. I hope that declaration is perfectly satisfactory to all those who are doubtful about our proposals on that point.

The right hon. Gentleman also referred to the matter of Preference. I do not propose to say anything about that, but only to reiterate the statement that that question will come up in its proper place when we lay before the House the. various Resolutions passed by the Economic Conference. That will be done as quickly as possible. Things are being prepared, and the House will find the Resolutions on the Order Paper. I understand that from certain parts of the House there is already a scramble for the laurels as to who said Poor Law reform first, or who is in favour of mining legislation. Let me candidly confess that I am not going to enter into that scramble. If there he any desire on the part of right hon. or hon. Members in any quarter of the House to steal the leaves of the laurel crown, they can do it. I am perfectly certain for myself, and I know that I am sp aking for all my colleagues when I say that somebody must do the work. As far as mining is concerned, what Government can neglect that problem? This Government has a greater representation of miners upon it, and has a very much larger representation of miners among its supporters than any Government that has ever existed in this country.

It is complained that our unemployment proposals are a hash up of previous proposals. We are pursuing a policy of continuity. [Laughter.] Why that laughter? Does any hon. Member suppose that we were to come in here to scrap everything that has been done, and to make a complete break, that whilst we are devising our new schemes the unemployed are to be neglected, and nothing is to be done? If that be the conception of any hon. Members below the Gangway of dealing with the unemployment problem, I confess that it is not mine. With regard to the question of the Poor Law reform, the House has been informed that the honour of the laurels in regard to this matter are for the right hon. Member for Paisley and not for me. Well, I make him a present of it.

Two matters were raised yesterday to which I should like to-refer. One of them could not exactly be left where it was—it was raised by my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition—lest it should give rise to misunderstanding in awkward quarters. It was in reference to what he said about Russia. He said—I am quoting from the OFFICIAL REPORT:— I am told—but I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this—that immediately after the change of Government, the Soviet Government repudiated the engagement they had made in regard to compensation to our fishermen and the three-miles limit. —[OFFICIAL REPORT, 13th February, 1924; col. 860, Vol. 169.]

I expressed dissent, and he was good enough to say that perhaps later on he would have a definite assurance. If the matter were left there, it would give rise to some. misunderstanding, and I propose to tell the House exactly how the matter stands. On 2nd May last year His Majesty's Government sent to Moscow their claims for compensation for various things that had happened in connection with the fishery dispute. On 23rd May Mr. Krassin, who was then the Russian representative in London, said, in a note., that the Russian Government was ready to pay compensation. The first claim was a general one, and after 23rd May claims in detail were put in. From then until 4th January there was no reply, and no further action was taken. On 4th January a reply came stating that some of the claims were wrong, and that others were not supported with sufficient evidence, and a request was made to produce that evidence. Other claims were rejected on the ground that for the damage in respect of which the claims were issued the Russian Government was not responsible. That is what happened. I would remind the House of the dates. That was done on 4th January, when my right hon. Friend was still Prime Minister. The Labour Government came in on 23rd January, so that that part of his statement—that he was informed that immediately after the change of Government the Soviet Government repudiated the claims—is incorrect. What is called the "repudiation" took place before the change of Government, at a time when there was very little chance of recognition, and it was not immediately after we came in, when it might be said that, although there was no recognition, there was bound to be recognition.