Business of the House.

– in the House of Commons on 12th March 1923.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Viscount  Curzon Viscount Curzon , Battersea South

(by Private Notice) asked the Prime Minister whether he is aware that there is a Private Bill set down for discussion to-night at 8.15 that will probably continue till 11 o'clock, and will therefore seriously curtail the discussion on the Motion to get Mr. Speaker out of the Chair on the Navy Estimates, and whether, in these circumstances, it will be possible for him to give further time for discussion of the Navy Votes in Committee?

Photo of Mr Carlyon Bellairs Mr Carlyon Bellairs , Maidstone

May I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman has not departed from the customary procedure of this House before the War by which we had the whole day for the discussion on the Motion to get Mr. Speaker out of the Chair? It was the invariable practice before the War.

Photo of Mr Bonar Law Mr Bonar Law , Glasgow Central

The answer to the question will show that we are not departing from, the custom. I am aware of the circumstances, as stated by the Noble Lord. The House will realise that the setting down of Private Bills for discussion at 8.15 is a matter for the Chairman of Ways and Means and does not rest with the Government. I hope very much that the House will be able to give us the Committee stage of the Votes on the Paper at not too late an hour to-night, and, while it is not possible for me definitely to promise to give further time before Easter in view of the fact that the Consolidated Fund Bill must he taken before Monday week, I hope that, by arrangement, the Navy Votes may be taken on an early Supply Day after the reassembling of the House.

Photo of Mr Carlyon Bellairs Mr Carlyon Bellairs , Maidstone

The Prime Minister has not dealt with the customary procedure. In 1910–1911 and 1912 we had a whole day for the discussion of the Motion to get Mr. Speaker out of the Chair. The only departure was in 1913 when the House assembled for the Session on 12th March. Can the right hon. Gentleman do something to help us in the situation?

Photo of Sir Clement Kinloch-Cooke Sir Clement Kinloch-Cooke , Plymouth, Devonport

Is the Prime Minister aware that there can be no other day for a general discussion or The discussion of Vote A, because the other discussions must take place on other Votes?

Photo of Mr William Pringle Mr William Pringle , Penistone

Is not the only remedy of hon. Gentlemen to vote against the Motion for the suspension of the 11 o'clock Rule?

Photo of Mr Bonar Law Mr Bonar Law , Glasgow Central

I do not think that I can add anything to the reply which I have given. My hon. and gallant Friend has himself shown that the Rule is not an absolute one.


May I ask the Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury when we shall be able to get the Army Estimates in the Vote Office?

Photo of Lieut-Colonel Leslie Wilson Lieut-Colonel Leslie Wilson , Portsmouth South

They are in the Vote Office now.

Photo of Mr William Pringle Mr William Pringle , Penistone

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether anything else besides the Navy Estimates is to be taken to-night under the suspension of the 11 o'clock Rule?

Photo of Mr Carlyon Bellairs Mr Carlyon Bellairs , Maidstone

May I ask you, Sir, whether we shall be allowed to carry on the policy discussion on Vote I on Report, and whether we can circumscribe the discussion by discussing the Air question wholly on the Air Vote; and may I ask the Prime Minister whether he will give us the Vote for the Committee of Defence at a, later date, so that we can discuss the question of a Ministry of Defence which several Members wish to raise?

Photo of Mr John Whitley Mr John Whitley , Halifax

If it be the desire of the House, I shall be willing to do that in the circumstances, if the Votes be passed to-night in a short space of time. I recollect that it was done on a previous occasion, when wider scope was given on the Report stage. I think that will be a proper thing to do.

With regard to the other question raised by the hon. and gallant Member, T observe that the first two notices on the Paper for going into Committee of Supply on the Air Estimates raise that question, and it would seem more appropriate to take that kind of discussion on Wednesday.

Captain BENN:

May we be assured that the First Lord of the Admiralty will be present on Wednesday to answer for what has been done by his Department?

Photo of Mr David Kirkwood Mr David Kirkwood , Dumbarton District of Burghs

And will the Secretary of State for the Air Ministry be here to answer questions for his Department?

Motion made, and Question put,

That the Proceedings on Government Business be exempted at this day's Sitting from the provisions of the Standing Order (Sittings of the House)."—{The Prime Minister.]

The House divided: Ayes, 235; Noes, 136.

Division No. 32.]AYES.[4.7 p.m.
Agg-Gardner, Sir James TynteArcher-Shee, Lieut.-Colonel MartinBanbury, Rt. Hon. Sir Frederick G.
Alexander, E. E. (Leyton, East)Ashley, Lt.-Col. Wilfrid W.Barlow, Rt. Hon. Sir Montague
Allen, Lieut.-Col. Sir William JamesBaird Rt. Hon. Sir John LawrenceBarnett, Major Richard W.
Amery, Ht. Hon. Leopold C. M. S.Baldwin, Rt. Hon. StanleyBarnston, Major Harry
Apsley, LordBalfour, George (Hampstead)Bell, Lieut.-Col. W. C. H. (Devizes)
Bellairs, Commander Carlyon W.Hamilton, Sir George C. (Altrincham)Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William
Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake)Hannon, Patrick Joseph HenryParker, Owen (Kettering)
Bennett, Sir T. J. (Sevenoaks)Harrison, F. C.Pease, William Edwin
Betterton, Henry B.Harvey, Major S. E.Pennefather, De Fonblanque
Birchall, Major J. DearmanHawke, John AnthonyPenny, Frederick George
Blades, Sir George RowlandHay, Major T. W. (Norfolk, South)Perkins, Colonel E. K.
Blundell, F. NHenderson, Sir T. (Roxburgh)Peto, Basil E.
Bowyer, Capt. G. E. W.Herbert, Col. Hon. A. (Yeovil)Pielou, D. P.
Boyd-Carpenter, Major A.Herbert, S. (Scarborough)Pownall, Lieut. Colonel Assheton
Brass, Captain W.Hewett. Sir J. P.Privett, F. J.
Brittain, Sir HarryHiley, Sir ErnestRawson, Lieut.-Com. A. C.
Brown, Major D. C. (Hexham)Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G.Reid, Capt. A. S. C. (Warrington)
Brown, Brig.-Gen. Clifton (Nawbury)Hogg, Rt. Hon. Sir D. (St. Marylebone)Reid, D. D. (County Down)
Bruford, R.Hohler, Gerald FitzroyRemer, J. R.
Bruton, Sir JamesHolbrook, Sir Arthur RichardRemnant, Sir James
Buckingham, Sir H.Hood, Sir JosephRentoul, G. S.
Buckley, Lieut.-Colonel A.Hopkins, John W. W.Reynolds, W. G. W.
Burn, Colonel Sir Charles RosdewHopkinson, A. (Lancaster, Mossley)Richardson, Sir Alex. (Gravesend)
Burney, Com- (Middx., Uxbridge)Howard, Capt. D. (Cumberland, N.)Richardson, Lt.-Col. Sir P. (Chertsey)
Butcher, Sir John GeorgeHoward-Bury, Lieut.-Col. C. K.Roberts, Samuel (Hereford, Hereford)
Butler, H. M. (Leeds, North)Hudson, Capt. A.Roberts, Rt. Hon. sir S. (Ecclesall)
Butt, Sir AlfredHughes, CollingwoodRobertson, J. D. (Islington, W.)
Button, H. S.Hurd, Percy A.Robinson, Sir T. (Lancs, Stretford)
Cadogan, Major EdwardHutchison, G. A. C. (Midlothian, N.)Rogerson, Capt. J. E.
Campion, Lieut. -Colonel W. R.Hutchison, W. (Kelvingrove)Roundell, Colonel R. F.
Cautley, Henry StrotherInskip, Sir Thomas Walker H.Ruggles-Brise, Major E.
Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City)Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. F. S.Russell, William (Bolton)
Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston)James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. CuthbertRussell-Wells, Sir Sydney
Cecil, Rt. Hon. Lord H. (Ox. Univ.)Jarrett, G. W. S.Sanders, Rt. Hon. Sir Robert A.
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood)Jephcott, A. R.Sandon, Lord
Chapman, Sir S.Jodrell, Sir Neville PaulShepperson, E. W.
Churchman, Sir ArthurKelley, Major Fred (Rotherham)Shipwright, Captain D.
Clarry, Reginald GeorgeKing, Captain Henry DouglasSimms, Dr. John M. (Co. Down)
Clayton, G. C.Kinloch-Cooke, Sir ClementSingleton, J. E.
Coates, Lt.-Cot. NormanLamb, J. Q.Skelton, A. N.
Cobb. Sir CyrilLane-Fox, Lieut. Colonel G. R.Smith, Sir Allan M. (Croydon, South)
Collie, Sir JohnLaw, Rt. Hon. A. B. (Glasgow, C.)Somerville, A. A. (Windsor)
Colvin, Brig-General Richard BealeLeigh, Sir John (Clapham)Somerville, Daniel (Barrow-in-Furness)
Craig, Captain C. C. (Antrim, South)Lloyd-Greame, Rt. Hon. Sir P.Sparkes, H. W.
Craik, Rt. Hon. Sir HenryLocker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green)Spears, Brig.-Gen. E. L.
Croft, Lieut.-Colonel Henry PageLocker-Lampson, Com. O. (Handsw'th)Spender-Clay, Lieut.-Colonel H. H.
Crook, C. W. (East Ham, North)Lorimer, H. D.Stanley, Lord
Curzon, Captain ViscountLowe, Sir Francis WilliamSteel, Major S. Strang
Davidson, J. C. C.(Hemel Hempstead)Loyd, Arthur Thomas (Abingdon)Stewart, Gershom (Wirral)
Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.)Lumley, L. R.Stott, Lt.-Col. W. H.
Dawson, Sir PhilipMacdonald, Sir Murdoch (Inverness)Stuart, Lord C. Crichton-
Dixon, C. H. (Rutland)Macnaghten, Hon. Sir MalcolmSueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser
Doyle, N. GrattanMacnamara, Rt. Hon. Dr. T. J.Sykes, Major-Gen. Sir Frederick H.
Du Pre, Colonel William BaringMcNeill, Ronald (Kent, Canterbury)Terrell, Captain R. (Oxford, Henley)
Edmondson, Major A. J.Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James IThomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South)
Ednam, ViscountMalone, Major P. B. (Tottenham, S.)Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement
Elliot, Capt. Walter E. (Lanark)Manviile, EdwardTubbs, S. W.
Erskine, James Malcolm MonteithMargesson, H. D. R.Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. P.
Erskine-Boist, Captain C.Mercer. Colonel H.Wallace, Captain E.
Eyres Monsell, Com. Bolton M.Milne, J. S. WardlawWard, Col. L. (Kingston-upon-Hull)
Faile, Major Sir Bertram GodfrayMitchell, W F. (Saffron Walden)Waring, Major Walter
Fermor-Hesketh, Major T.Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham)Warner, Sir T. Courtenay T.
Fisher, Rt. Hon. Herbert A. L.Molloy, Major L. G. S.Wells. S. R.
Foreman, Sir HenryMolson, Major John ElsdaleWhite, Lt.-Col. G. D. (Southport)
Foxcroft, Captain Charles TalbotMoore, Major-General Sir Newton J.Whitla, Sir William
Fraser, Major Sir KeithMoore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C.Wilson, Col. M. J. (Richmond)
Frece, Sir Walter deMorden, Col. W. GrantWinterton, Eart
Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E.Moreing, Captain Algernon H.Wise, Frederick
Furness, G. J.Morrison, Hugh (Wilts, Salisbury)Wolmer, Viscount
Ganzonl, Sir JohnMorrison-Bell, Major A. C. (Honiton)Wood, Rt. Hon. Edward F. L. (Ripon)
Gaunt, Rear-Admiral Sir Guy R.Murchison, C. K.Wood, Sir H. K. (Woolwich, West)
Goff, Sir R. ParkMurray, John (Leeds, West)Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L.
Greaves-Lord, WalterNesbitt, Robert C.Yate, Colonel Sir Charles Edward
Guinness, Lieut.-Col. Hon. W. E.Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter)Yerburgh. R. D. T.
Guthrie, Thomas MauleNewson, Sir Percy WilsonYoung, Rt. Hon. E. H. (Norwich)
Gwynne, Rupert S.Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge)
Hacking, Captain Douglas H.Nicholson, Brig.-Gen. J.(Westminster)TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Hall, Lieut. Col. Sir F. (Dulwich)Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield)Colonel Leslie Wilson and Colonel
Hall, Rr-Adml Sir W.(Liv'p'l,W.D'by)Nield, Sir HerbertGibbs.
Halstead, Major D.Norton-Griffiths, Lieut.-Col. Sir John
Adams, D.Barnes, A.Briant, Frank
Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock)Batey, JosephBroad, F. A.
Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro')Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith)Buchanan, G.
Ammon, Charles GeorgeBennett, A. J. (Mansfield)Buckle, J.
Attlee, C. R.Berkeley, Captain ReginaldBurgess, S.
Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery)Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W.Burnie, Major J. (Bootle)
Buxton, Charles (Accrington)Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath)Richards, R.
Buxton, Noel (Norfolk, North)John, William (Rhondda, West)Richardson, R. (Houghton-le Spring)
Chapple, W. A.Johnston, Thomas (Stirling)Roberts, C. H. (Derby)
Charleton, H. C.Johnstone, Harcourt (Willesden, East)Roberts, Frederick O. (W. Bromwich)
Clarke, Sir E. C.Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown)Rose, Frank H.
Collins, Sir Godfrey (Greenock)Jones. Morgan (Caerphilly)Royce, William Stapleton
Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities)Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd)Saklatvala, S.
Darbishire, C. W.Jowett, F. W. (Bradford, East)Salter, Dr. A.
Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale)Kirkwood, D.Sexton, James
Dudgeon, Major C. R.Lambert, Rt. Hon. GeorgeShaw, Hon. Alex. (Kilmarnock)
Duncan, C.Lansbury, GeorgeShaw, Thomas (Preston)
Dunnico, H.Leach, W.Short, Alfred (Wednesbury)
Ede, James ChuterLee, F.Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John
Edmonds, G.Lees-Smith, H. B. (Keighley)Simpson, J. Hope
Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty)Lewis, Thomas A.Sinclair, Sir A.
Fairbairn, R. R.Linfield, F. C.Smith, T. (Pontefract)
Falconer, J.Lowth, T.Snell, Harry
George, Major G. L. (Pembroke)MacDonald, J. R. (Aberavon)Stewart, J. (St. Rollox)
Gosling, HarryM'Entee, V. L.Thomson, T. (Middlesbrough, West)
Graham, W. (Edinburgh, Central)McLaren, AndrewThorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.)
Gray, Frank (Oxford)March, S.Thornton, M.
Greenall, T.Marshall, Sir Arthur H.Tillett, Benjamin
Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan)Martin, F. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, E.)Trevelyan, C. P.
Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool)Maxton, JamesWallhead, Richard C.
Groves, T.Millar, J. D.Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline)
Hall, P. (York, W.R., Normanton)Morel, E. D.Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda)
Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Shetland)Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.)Webb, Sidney
Harbord, ArthurMosley, OswaldWedgwood, Colonel Joslah C.
Harris. Percy A.Murray, R. (Renfrew, Western)Weir, L. M.
Hay, Captain J. P. (Cathcart)Newbold, J. T. W.White, H. G. (Birkenhead, E.)
Hayday, ArthurNlchol, RobertWhiteley, W.
Hayes, John Henry (Edge Hill)O'Connor, Thomas P.Williams, David (Swansea, E.)
Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (N'castle, E.)O'Grady, Captain JamesWilliams, T (York. Don Valley)
Henderson, T. (Glasgow)Paling, W.Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe)
Hillary, A. E.Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan)Wintringham, Margaret
Hirst, G. H.Parry, Lieut.-Colonel Thomas HenryWood, Major M. M. (Aberdeen, C.)
Hodge. Rt. Hon. JohnPhillipps, VivianWright, W.
Hogge, James MylesPonsonby, ArthurYoung, Robert (Lancaster, Newton)
Hutchison, Sir R. (Kirkcaldy)Potts, John S.
Irving, DanPrlngle, W. M. R.TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Mr. Neil Maclean and Mr. Lunn.