Orders of the Day — MILK AND DAIRIES (AMENDMENT) BILL [Lords.]

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at on 19 July 1922.

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Photo of Sir Alfred Mond Sir Alfred Mond , Swansea West

I do not know what the flash process is. I have not gone into the details, but I can assure my hon. Friend that I shall very carefully consult all the people who are interested in the matter, and obtain the best advice that I can, before making any Order. Undoubtedly all these various questions will be carefully considered, and judged on the best advice possible. I am only safeguarding myself against making any kind of decision on the subject this evening.

The discussion has ranged over a large field and the Bill has been received as favourably as one could expect a milk Bill to be received. Every milk Bill is certain to be the subject of much discussion by the people who are affected, some in one way and some in another. I should like to thank the House generally for the way in which they have received it. We are postponing the Act of 1915 for two years; that is all. Certain Clauses of the Bill are taken from that Act, including Clause 5, which the right hon. Gentleman, the Member for Shoreditch (Dr. Addison), spent such a long time in denouncing, and which he called "window dressing." As a matter of fact it is not window dressing at all. I took great interest in putting that Clause in, and I attach very great importance to it. The object is to make it practically impossible for a farmer who knows he has a cow with a tubercular udder to go on using the milk from it without exposing himself to penalties more severe than any of the penalties under the Act of 1915. An hon. Member, who has now left the House, said it was practically impossible to diagnose tuberculosis of the udder. I have discussed this question with veterinary experts and practical farmers, and I am told the diagnosis is by no means so difficult as it is made out. At any rate, the farmer is put on his guard and can take steps to prevent himself from committing the offence. That in itself is a very valuable step forward. The idea of the right hon. Gentleman, the member for Shoreditch, of a kind of Sherlock Holmes dodging about to some remote cow in a cowshed and back again is very good on paper, but in practice would involve the appointment of a large number of inspectors if it is satisfactorily done. Of course, we are not carrying out all the recommendations of the Astor Committee. As far as I can make out, one recommendation practically contradicts the next. I see proposals to obtain a high class of milk, to reduce the price, to prevent anyone making a profit, and to secure an increased quantity. It would take a much abler man than I am to reconcile all these conflicting claims.

I certainly will not undertake the task with regard to grading, but the right hon. Gentleman asked me to say something about it. I can only now give a rough outline of the grading which we intend. Certified milk will be graded very much on the present lines. Every animal will be subjected to the tuberculin test before being admitted to the herd and certified as a non-re-actor. Every three months the herd will be examined by a veterinary surgeon and the milk examined for tubercle bacillus. If there is evidence of tuberculosis the animal will be withdrawn from the herd. If milk from the group shows evidence of tuberculosis the whole group will be withdrawn until the affected animal is identified. Milk is to be bottled on the farm immediately after production and delivered to the consumer within two days of production. Bottles are to be completely sealed before delivery and must not contain more than 30,000 bacteria per cubic centimetre or any bacillus coli in a tenth of a cubic centimetre. In the case of Grade A milk the health of the herds is to be the same as with certified milk, except that there will be no tuberculin tests. The milk may be pasteurised, but if so it must be so designated. It must not contain more than 200,000 bacteria per cubic centimetre. These limitations involve the use of sterilized vessels, with careful regard to cleanliness, especially to ensure freedom from manurial contamination. Delivery from producer to retailer in sealed churns or bottles; from retailer to consumer in same vessels, or in sterilised bottles or containers filled and scaled on the premises. That, if carried out, would greatly improve the quality of the milk. The examination would be a test of tuberculous milk. People who ask for Grade "A" milk will get Grade "A" milk, and milk which they can trust. If they continue to call for Grade "A" milk other grades of milk will not be sold. That is a reply to the right hon. Member for Shoreditch who really agrees with the policy we are pursuing, although he used some rather violent language. We must get the consumer interested. Other points that have been raised I will consider between now and the Committee stage, and I ask the House to give the Bill a Second Reading.