Power to Borrow Moneys Required for Certain Sinking Funds.

Orders of the Day — Ways and Means. – in the House of Commons on 19th June 1922.

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4. "That the Treasury may raise money in the same manner in which they are authorised to raise money under sub-section (1) of section one of the War Loan Act, 1919, for any of the following purposes, that is to say:—

  1. (a) for providing during the financial year ending the thirty-first day of March nineteen hundred and twenty-three for the issue out of the Consolidated Fund of the sums to be issued thereout, under section forty-five of the Finance Act, 1921, for the purposes of the sinking fund established under that section in connection with the three and one-half per cent. Conversion Loan; and
  2. (b) for providing during the said financial year such sums as are required in connection with the four per cent. Victory Bonds, or stock or bonds forming part of the four per cent. Funding Loan, 1960–90, which are transferred in satisfaction of death duties, or are as required under Section two of the War Loan Act. 1919, to be issued to the National Debt Commissioners for the purposes of the sinking funds established in pursuance of that Section in connection with the four per cent. Victory Bonds and four per cent. Funding Loan, 1960–90; and
  3. (c) for providing for the repayment to the Consolidated Fund of all or any part of the sums issued out of that fund for the purposes aforesaid;
and that the provisions of Section one of the War Loan Act, 1919, shall have effect accordingly."

Photo of Mr John Baird Mr John Baird , Rugby

I beg to move to leave out the words at rates which shall be fixed by the Treasury after consultation with the Minister of Health and the Secretary for Scotland, and which shall be such that the duties levied under the said Act shall not exceed the amount required to meet the costs incurred in respect of the remuneration (including superannuation allowances) arid expenses of the inspectors, and otherwise in connection with inspection under the said Act, and different rates of duty may he fixed as respects different classes of works. and to insert instead thereof the words, of ten pounds in the case of an alkali work and six pounds in the ease of any other work. On the Committee stage of this Resolution an objection was raised which, on, reconsideration, appeared to have some, considerable substance, and I hope the. House will agree to this Amendment, which will give effect to the desire expressed by Members that some definite sum representing the duty to be charged should be put into the Bill. Hon. Members who were present on the Committee stage will remember that the object was to cover the cost of collection, and, although this will not quite do that, it will considerably increase the amount to be derived. As a matter of fact, the stamp duties will be doubled.

Photo of Lieut-Colonel Penry Williams Lieut-Colonel Penry Williams , Middlesbrough East

Apparently this is an Amendment upon the lines which were advocated in the Committee on Friday, and as far as we can see it is on the right lines, but I would appeal to the hon. Baronet to put the Amendment down on the Paper and to give us a reasonable time for its consideration. It is not quite fair to spring the Amendment on us at 1 o'clock in the morning, and, therefore, I would appeal to the hon Baronet to give us a couple of days to consider it.

Photo of Mr John Baird Mr John Baird , Rugby

With the leave of the House, perhaps I may be allowed to explain that we were under no obligation to put down an Amendment at all. We carried our point on the division, and it was only with a view to meeting the wishes which were clearly expressed in every direction that this Amendment was put down.

Photo of Mr John Baird Mr John Baird , Rugby

The hurry is that we must get this through before a Clause can be inserted in the Finance Bill.

Photo of Mr John Baird Mr John Baird , Rugby

The Clause which wilt be based on this Resolution.

Photo of Mr John Baird Mr John Baird , Rugby

New Clauses are not numbered. The Clause cannot be put down until this Resolution has been passed. I explained what the nature of the Clause would be in moving the Resolution in Committee. This Amendment is put down simply with a view to meeting the wishes of the Committee. As hon. Members will remember, the division took place very nearly at the end of the sitting on Friday, and it was impossible without consulting the necessary authorities, to put down an Amendment. It has there-lore been handed in in manuscript and I hope the House will let us have it.

1.0 A.M

Photo of Mr James Hogge Mr James Hogge , Edinburgh East

I do not think it is unreasonable to ask that this Resolution should be put down for to-morrow. My friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer has agreed by arrangement a few moments ago to give an extra day for the discussion of the Committee stage of the Finance Bill, and he will admit at once that these new Clauses will not be reached certainly before some time late on Wednesday or on the fourth day which has now been arranged by the Patronage Secretary. I know the Government can take the Report stage after eleven o'clock. My hon. Friend is always quite good about these matters, and my right hon. Friend for Widnes (Mr. A. Henderson) has agreed to raise no objection to the Report stage being taken if my hon. Friend will put it upon the Paper to-morrow. The Govern-men will have it to-morrow night without any trouble. I think this is fair, and I appeal to my hon. Friend to agree to that.

Photo of Sir Robert Horne Sir Robert Horne , Glasgow Hillhead

I am very anxious to agree, but I think the House might agree to this Resolution to-night. We were -under no obligation to make any alteration. We did so to meet the views of those who sit on the opposite side and we thought it was agreed.

Photo of Mr James Hogge Mr James Hogge , Edinburgh East

We will give it to you to-morrow night.

Photo of Mr James Hogge Mr James Hogge , Edinburgh East

Then put it on the Paper to-morrow.

Photo of Sir Robert Horne Sir Robert Horne , Glasgow Hillhead

I think my hon. Friend will sue that it is reasonable to give us this Resolution now. We cannot put it down on the Paper in time.

Amendment agreed to.

Ordered, That it be an Instruction to the Committee on the Finance Bill that they have power to make provision therein pursuant to the said Resolutions.—[Sir R. Horne.]