Orders of the Day — Empire Settlement Bill.

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at on 26 April 1922.

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Photo of Sir Halford Mackinder Sir Halford Mackinder , Glasgow Camlachie

I only propose to occupy a few minutes of the remaining time, as I understand other hon. Members are desirous of addressing the House, and I will confine myself to two points. The first is a drafting point, but I think it is important in view of the Financial Resolution which will come before the House in the course of the next few days. I refer to the point of which the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies spoke just now, and that is the return of loans. The repayment of loans is a very important matter in connection with this Bill. What is to be the destiny of the money which comes back? The italicised portion of Clause 1 is drawn very strictly, it says: Any expenses … shall be paid out of moneys provided by Parliament: Provided that the aggregate amount ex- pended … shall not exceed one million five hundred thousand pounds in the financial year current at the date of the passing of this Act. I draw special attention to the words the aggregate amount shall not exceed. I imagine this money will be repaid in large quantities. I think all experience tends to show that there will be comparatively few bad debts and we shall begin to receive money back in the course of four or five years. At the end of eight or nine years we shall, it is likely, receive a handsome revenue in the return of this money, and it will go on growing until at the end of 15 years it will have become a sum larger than the grant annually made by Parliament That situation will be extraordinarily helpful and hopeful if we are entitled to retain the money which comes back. I speak in your presence, Mr. Speaker, but I think it is well to be cautious, and looking at the extremely stringent wording of this italicised portion of the Bill, I suggest to the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty that between now and the introduction of the Financial Resolution, careful consideration should be given to the drafting of that Resolution lest the Committee should find itself in this unfortunate position, that whereas the Government are willing to meet views that may be expressed in regard to the application of loans, yet the Committee is stopped, because of the terms of the Resolution, from proceeding in that direction. Nothing could be greater in the matter of finance than that at the end of 15 years this country should be in possession of a fund of £40,000,000 or £50,000,000. We might charge a little interest, not to be paid annually, but adding a little at the end of the payments and thus we might have a sum of £40,000,000 or £50,000,000, and I assume there would be equivalent sums, not perhaps so large, in the various Dominions, so that the whole Empire would find itself in possession of a sum which might run up to even £100,000,000 under the control of the various Parliaments for the purpose of re-distributing population in the Empire, while looking to the desires of the individuals and getting over the economic difficulties.

The other point I wish to put is a very difficult point to present briefly. I am chairman of the Imperial Shipping Committee, which is a sister Committee to the Committee for Overseas Settlement. On the Imperial Shipping Committee we have the advantage of the presence of High Commissioners and other representatives of the Dominions and of India, and also of very experienced shipping experts. We are constantly considering the question of emigration. The right hon. Gentleman the Member for Peebles (Sir D. Maclean) has said that we should take a long view. I agree absolutely with that, but, at the same time, when the word "retrenchment" is on everybody's lips, it is desirable, if one can do so, to defend a measure like this also from the point of short view. We cannot put British shipping right until we re-establish British emigration. The position before the War was that we received into this country bulky cargoes of food and raw materials, and we sent out of this, country cargoes in small space of manufactured articles, and the balance of the trade was made up by emigration—some 200,000 people every year—and by cargoes of coal. When dealing with distant portions of the world, and with voyages which cross the Atlantic or go through the Suez Canal, coal, except in the single case of South America, is not a very important element in the exports. The balance of the trade was established before the War by means of emigration. At the present moment the bulk of the exports from this country to Australia and New Zealand is just about one-third of the bulk of the imports, and the result is that, roughly speaking, three-quarters of the cost of the round voyage has to be thrown on to the freights for bringing food and raw material to this country. This is causing great discontent at the present moment in Australia and New Zealand, and my Committee had to investigate a case brought before them by the New Zealand Government. Fortunately we got unanimity in replying to the New Zealand Government that the British shipowners were not exacting freights which were not justified from the producers in New Zealand, but the mere fact that a complaint was brought to our notice, and was investigated, shows that there is irritation in regard to these freights.

There is more than that. There is serious difficulty in portions of Australia because of the High freights charged on produce coming to this country. The result is that produce is not coming to this country in the quantity it should come in, and this acts to the detriment of the consumer in this country as well as to the detriment of the producer in Australia. Anything that can be done to restore the former balance will immediately have its effect in cheapening food and raw material—wool and so forth—in this country. Even taking the short view, my belief is that every penny spent in this way will have results. The money for which we are providing in the Bill will have an immediate effect in giving relief as regards trading conditions between the Dominions and this country. The effect will be very marked in removing the irritation that exists in Australia, and also it will be a matter of the greatest importance to this country. Those are two important points, one of which arises out of my own experience, and I hope that both will receive careful consideration.