Clause 1. — (Provisions for giving the force of law to and carrying into effect Irish Agreement.)

Part of Orders of the Day — Irish Free State (Agreement) Bill – in the House of Commons at on 31 March 1922.

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Lieut.-Colonel GUINNESS:

I hope the Colonial Secretary will give further consideration to this Amendment, and if he cannot accept it as it is worded, I trust he will bring up other words to deal with this matter. It was admitted in the other place that the wording was not ideal, and I appeal to the right hon. Gentleman to waive our privilege. Let us consider who these men are who are dealt with in this Amendment. They are public servants in Ireland who for years past have been putting down what used to be considered crime, but which, owing to its success, has been condoned. There is not any change in human nature owing to this artificial and newer definition of crime, and the people with whom they have dealt, in some cases will undoubtedly have very strong feelings against- those who were formerly engaged in the maintenance of law and order.

I am not suggesting that the present Provisional Government are not entirely honest in their desire to do what is right to these public servants, but we do not know how long it is going to last. There may be civil war in Ireland, and therefore we must see that those who have served the Irish nation in the past are not left without anyone to pay the pensions which they are entitled to receive. We do not want to relieve the Irish Government of its liabilities, but we want to protect these men in Ireland, who may have few friends in the future, by giving them the powerful assistance of the British Government to get their rights considered. Article 10 of the Agreement deals only with the men who are discharged by the Government or who retire in consequence of the change of Government effected in pursuance hereof. The majority of Irish civil servants are not covered by that provision in any shape or form.

The Act of 1920 deals with different classes in different ways. Civil servants were not entitled to go of their own free will and they could only retire under the Act for the statutory conditions which will be found in Schedule B under which a Committee is set up, and they were only allowed to let civil servants retire if they could show that their duties under the new Government were not the same or analogous to the duties previously performed or that their position was materially altered. As regards the majority of civil servants under that provision, they will not be entitled to retire, and personally I think it is most desirable that they should stay on, because it is the best hope of avoiding chaos that these men should stop on and help the new Government to get things started. Surely we must have some provision for the men who retire in the future, and who are left out entirely by the wording of Clause 10.

I asked a few weeks ago when the Government would re-enact the provisions of the 1920 Act, because there is nothing whatever laid down to secure that if these men stay on they are to get the pensions in consideration of which they undertook their service. I think it is absolutely unjust to the civil servant if A makes a contract with B to transfer his obligation to a third party without the consent of B. Whatever may be the position of the Government, it is absolutely imperative that they should admit only what is common honesty between one man and another. After 10 years, if one of these civil servants retires, how is he to bring himself under Clause 10? How is he to prove he is retiring in pursuance of this agreement in consequence of the change of Government affecting him? He will have no means whatever of enforcing his claim. The Government have told us again to-day that they accept full ultimate responsibility. What is their objection to saying so in this Bill and to making it absolutely plain? Personal assurances by Ministers are nothing like so valuable to the civil servant as a claim based on statute. Ministerial pledges often are binding only while Ministers remain in office. They cannot control their successors. The right hon. Gentleman has practically admitted, at any rate he has led us to infer, that this guarantee is of much more value if it rests on ministerial responsibility than if embodied in the Treaty. It was practically said in another place that if you put this in you are removing the liability from the Irish Government; that in other words, the ministerial bond is worth nothing. I only want to see the contingent liability remain on the British Government. Either the ministerial pledge is binding or it is not. If it is binding then the argument about removing the obligation from the Free State Government falls to the ground, and there should be no possible difficulty involved in putting the matter clearly in the Bill. If, however, this contingent liability is not binding, and if these men who do not go immediately as a result of the setting up of the Irish Government, are as a consequence to have no claim, then I think this House will be perpetrating a very great injustice. These men served both Ireland and Great Britain to the best of their ability. They have served the country well and have not even grudged their lives in its cause. I beg the right hon. Gentleman, if he cannot accept these words, to bring, up some other form of words as an alternative to deal with these very hard cases.