Sudan.

Egypt. – in the House of Commons at on 28 February 1922.

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I now come to the Sudan, which is very important to the British Empire. The Sudan calls for more than a passing word. The combined efforts of Great Britain and Egypt were needed to rescue that vast country from the devastation and ruin into which the Mahdist movement had plunged it. Since the reconquest more than 20 years ago, Great Britain and Egypt have alike contributed men and money towards the restoration of peace and prosperity to what should one day prove a country as fertile and populous as it is now barren and empty.

His Majesty's Government will never allow the progress which has already been made, and the greater promise of future years, to be jeopardised.

Service in the Sudan is unpopular with Egyptians, and one of the main reasons why conscription is disliked is due to the fact that it entails such service. On the other hand, Egyptian officials are not welcomed by the Sudanese, in whose minds the memories of Egyptian misgovernment 50 years ago still rankle.

Nor can His Majesty's Government agree to any change in the status of that country which would in the slightest degree diminish the security for the many millions of British capital which are already invested in its development—to the great advantage of the Sudan.

Egypt, on the other hand, has undeniable right to the most ample guarantees that the development of the Sudan shall never threaten or interfere with her existing water supply, or with that which she may require in order to bring her own territory under full cultivation. Such guarantees His Majesty's Government will be ready to afford, and there is no reason why they should in any way hamper or retard the progress of the Sudan.

The Declaration conforms closely to the policy laid down by agreement at the Imperial Conference, and fully covers all matters there defined as essential to Imperial security. It has been notified to the Dominion Governments, who take a very keen interest in the matter, in a telegram published in the White Paper (pp. 30–31).

His Majesty's Government have complete confidence in Lord Allenby. As the correspondence in the White Paper shows, the points on which he was invited home for consultation related to the Imperial and international effect of his proposals, on which His Majesty's Government had to be completely satisfied. As already explained, it was essential that the method of procedure to be adopted should thoroughly safeguard the special relations between His Majesty's Government and Egypt recognised by other Powers and essential to Imperial security.

Lord Allenby fully concurred in our proposals for this end, and has returned to Egypt in complete agreement with the course of action now recommended to Parliament.

His character, his achievements, and his handling of a very difficult situation during the past three years in Egypt have given him an exceptional position with the Egyptian people, and His Majesty's Government have complete confidence that the interests of the British Empire, and the cause of a good understanding between ourselves and the Egyptian people, are equally secure in his hands.

Photo of Mr Donald Maclean Mr Donald Maclean , Peebles and Southern

In view of the very great importance of the statement which the Prime Minister has just made, and the impossibility of discussing it now, may I ask the Leader of the House and the Prime Minister what is the earliest opportunity they can give to the House for its discussion? I would suggest that probably the Vote on Account next week would furnish such an opportunity, either on the Committee stage—which, however, has, perhaps, been already pledged—or on the Report stage; and, if it be on the Report stage, I beg to give notice that I shall raise that question then.

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN:

I cannot name an occasion for it at this moment. I think the House obviously ought to have an opportunity of studying the White Paper, and the very important declaration which has been made by my right hon. Friend, before they are asked to discuss it. As hon. Members know, we have undertaken to make no change in Egypt until the House has had an opportunity of expressing its opinion. I do not think we can take that opinion next week; we must finish the Irish Bill, and get on with some other business.

Photo of Mr Donald Maclean Mr Donald Maclean , Peebles and Southern

May I ask my right hon. Friend whether, taking the two days for the Irish Bill this week, and, perhaps, two days next week, an opportunity will not arise next week, quite naturally, for the discussion of this most important question?

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN:

I certainly do not want to shirk discussion of this question. If the Vote on Account is ready to be taken next week, and the House is pleased to take the discussion on the Vote on Account, we should offer no objection; but I am not in a position to say that the Vote on Account will be ready for discussion next week.

Photo of Mr John Clynes Mr John Clynes , Manchester Platting

Does the right hon. Gentleman think he will be able to give a definite statement to the House on Thursday as to whether we may have a discussion next week?

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN:

I will try to find out to-morrow. It would, in any case, have to be a day towards the end of the week, and, if I could not answer to-morrow, perhaps I might give a definite answer on Monday.

Major BARNES:

Can the Prime Minister give me an answer to the question which I addressed to him rather more than a week ago, and which I understood was to be deferred until to-day, namely, whether it is the intention of the Government to continue to exclude Zaghloul Pasha and his colleagues from participation in the discussion of Egyptian affairs?

Captain COOTE:

Before the right hon. Gentleman answers that question, may I ask whether he does not think it desirable to wait until some opinion can be formed as to the reception of this declaration in Egypt, before a discussion is undertaken in this House?

Photo of Mr John Mills Mr John Mills , Dartford

May I ask the Prime Minister whether he is in a position to deny that Lord Allenby's first duty on his return to Egypt, with instructions to soothe the public unrest, was to release Zaghloul Pasha in 1919? Seeing that many of the statements are grossly inaccurate—[HON. MEMBERS: "Order, order!"]

Photo of Mr David Lloyd George Mr David Lloyd George , Caernarvon District of Boroughs

That is a matter for Lord Allenby, who is in complete charge in Egypt. It is for him to make any recommendations in the first instance to His Majesty's Government. Whatever action he took in 1919 he took entirely on his own responsibility.

Photo of Mr John Mills Mr John Mills , Dartford

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the answer given to me yesterday was that the Egyptian Parliament has not functioned since June, 1914, that it has automatically lapsed as an elective assembly, and that many of its members are dead, and by what process is it expected that a consensus of Egyptian opinion will be obtained?

Photo of Mr David Lloyd George Mr David Lloyd George , Caernarvon District of Boroughs

That does not arise out of the question.

Photo of Mr John Swan Mr John Swan , Barnard Castle

Can the Prime Minister give us an assurance that the Egyptian people will have an opportunity of choosing their own delegation to negotiate this Treaty between Egypt and Britain, instead of its being appointed either by the High Commissioner or by our Cabinet?

Photo of Mr David Lloyd George Mr David Lloyd George , Caernarvon District of Boroughs

I think those are questions that might very well be reserved till the discussion in the House. I shall certainly have no objection to answering them when the time comes, but I think it would be very much better to discuss them when the Debate comes on.

Photo of Mr John Swan Mr John Swan , Barnard Castle

Will the Prime Minister reconsider the question that has been pressed here for the bringing back of Zaghloul Pasha from his exile, in order that he may have an opportunity, on behalf of the Egyptian people, to present their opinion?

Photo of Mr John Whitley Mr John Whitley , Halifax

That question can be raised when the Debate takes place.

Photo of Mr Donald Maclean Mr Donald Maclean , Peebles and Southern

Will the Prime Minister and the Leader of the House take notice that we press very strongly for the discussion next week?

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN:

If I can get the Vote on Account ready by Thursday, we will put it down for Thursday.