Public Buildings, Great Britain.

Part of Civil Services and Revenue Departments' Supplementary Estimates, 1920–21. – in the House of Commons at on 25 February 1921.

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Photo of Mr Donald Maclean Mr Donald Maclean , Peebles and Southern

I quite admit the justice of your ruling, and I will confine my arguments more particularly, while at the same time bringing in to some extent the question of policy, because of this new development which is taking place in the country as distinct from headquarters in London. I understand that my right hon. Friend the Financial Secretary to the Treasury represents the Stationery Office, and I would ask him when he intervenes in this Debate to tell us why, in view of the passionate desire which I am sure he shares for economy in every possible direction, and the diminution for the need of a Stationery Office, this large expenditure of £185,000 for setting up a branch office in Manchester is now before the Committee? If when he comes to reply he can deal with that question, and tell me what reason the Department can give for this need having arisen—and it must have been an urgent case, it must have been an urgent and unforeseen contingency—I shall be glad to know why that urgency was not foreseen in the original Estimates.

I come to the item "Ministry of Transport—provision of accommodation in Whitehall Gardens." That, again, is a remanet of the original Vote granted by the Committee; it refers to work not fulfilled in the financial year, and for it they have to ask a further sum. I will only say, in view of the possibility, not that the Ministry may come to an end, but that its operations will certainly be very much curtailed, it is desirable we should have some explanation of the reason for going to further expense in connection with providing additional accommodation for it. They have taken over practically as much room as the whole of the Board of Trade used to occupy, and there seems little or no justification for the sum for which they are now asking. The next Vote connected with the Office of Works is for the purchase and adaptation of premises at 15, Carteret Street, S.W. This is really one of the most remarkable items. It is a, perfect flashlight upon the attitude which a Department like this is adopting in the present urgent need for economy. We have been told by the right hon. Gentleman that this expenditure is largely for the purposes of research. Research into what? Into the way of building houses? I thought the great search was for houses. But here there is going to be a research into the questions of construction and quality of building materials, with all the paraphernalia of pure theorists attempting to get on with practical jobs. To the extent that that is necessary it is already covered, I suggest, by the operations of the Ministry of Health. The right hon. Gentleman, interrupting an hon. Member, said that no doubt in time there would be co-ordination in the joint efforts at research in regard to building houses between the Ministry of Health and the Public Buildings Department. But what reason can there be, in the present urgent need for economy, for men devoting their energies at a great cost to an inquiry into the quality of cement and bricks and matters of that kind? The experience of the building industry in this country surely is sufficient for that for all practical purposes. It may be that in some halcyon days to come, when the Exchequer is overflowing with surplus money, it may be desirable to set up some such research department, but there never has been a confession made at that box more self-revealing of the attitude of the whole Ministry. My right hon. Friend, of course, is one of the heads of a great business founded on research, but in their researches they sought for things which were not in practical concrete existence. As far as I can gather all the country needs at present is a quite ordinary, reasonable, habitable house, and existing knowledge and experience, both public and private, should be quite sufficient for that object without spending more money in research.

I come next to Item C: "Provision for the continuance of Departments engaged in winding up war business for a longer period than anticipated, for increased cost of hiring, and for additional temporary services, £60,000." That, again, is an indication of the predicament in which the nation finds itself. All Departments are closely related to the Public Buildings Department and the Office of Works, and travelling over the whole wide range of public Departments, some such item must appear in the Estimates for each of them. I do not know how many other Departments are affected, but here is this item, and as it stands it is a confession of the inability of the Government to reduce their staff. In this connection I think I am entitled to refer to a return which the Government published in November last, showing that out of 400,000 civil servants, notwithstanding the appeals which have been made by the House, and the directions apparently given by the Prime Minister and everybody supposed to have authority in the matter, there is a net reduction of 390 only. What happens, of course, is that when prima facie dismissed from one Department they go into another, bolting about like rabbits from one official burrow to another, without the House of Commons getting hold of them. Here is another evidence of it. I am very much indebted to the Committee for having listened to me for so long, but I think I may claim that in the items I have mentioned I have justified to the full the reduction which I have moved.