Navy Estimates, 1920–21.

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at on 18 March 1920.

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Photo of Sir Gerald Hohler Sir Gerald Hohler , Rochester Gillingham

I respectfully submit to the Admiralty that that is an item which requires very careful consideration. They have been paid for it over and over again. I ask the Admiralty to consider whether it cannot come on later in the financial year as an Appropriation in Aid. We were given to understand that they were patriotic people. Let them set an example to others. There is one other point on which I wish to call the attention of the First Lord, and that is in reference to the Admiralty Office. The sum involved is, in round figures, £1,500,000. Before the War it was about £500,000. Last year in his written statement I recollect that the First Lord told us it was in process of reduction, or that he hoped to reduce it. For that office to be incurring an expenditure of £1,500,000 seems to me excessive. It is impossible for me to put a finger on a certain point and to say, "There you can get rid of them," but I am satisfied that with the goodwill the First Lord has shown with regard to other matters affecting his estimates, something could be done to get rid of these temporary clerks, boys, messengers and the like, and other officers, to bring the Department down to something like its expenditure before the War. With regard to dockyards, there is very little I have to say. Everybody knows that I am a dockyards Member. The Members for the dockyards asked for a deputation to be received by the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister received them, and the First Lord was there with the Financial Secretary and Admiral Power. The Prime Minister made to us a statement which was satisfactory to everyone concerned, and I know he made it after consultation with the First Lord and the Financial Secretary, because they withdrew for that purpose. We rely upon that, and I do not believe he is going to play us false. I shall, therefore, say no more about the dockyards. They are all equally deserving or, in the view of some, equally undeserving. If I wished to say a word for Chatham I think honestly I could. All I would add is, do not let us quarrel amongst ourselves. Of course I have one or two grievances. I again bring to the notice of the First Lord the long-delayed decision under the Jerram Report. I think it is Clause 48. Many of these men who were invalided before they had served for pension have died. There is also the case of the old naval pensioner. I know it is part of a larger question which has been raised in regard to all these pensioners—old soldier pensioners and civil service pensioners of every class. The other night it was raised in regard to the police, and the Home Secretary in that Debate, I believe, held out the expectation that in necessitous cases relief would be given, and relying on that promise, I voted for the Government. I am satisfied that the Government will endeavour to do what is just. I hope something will be done shortly, because there are grievous cases, and they affect not one class only, but a number of classes.

I want to call attention also to the question of the Royal Marines. I think I have only to state the case of one branch—only 200 are concerned—to satisfy the First Lord and the Financial Secretary that I am right. The point is this: In 1915 the Admiralty created a new class of warrant officer (Warrant Officer, Class 2). In this connection there was issued Admiralty Weekly Order, No. 10, Institution of Rank of Warrant Officer, Class 2, dated 7th January, 1916. Under that Order certain ratings were created Warrant Officers, Class 2. They were given improved pay and, what is much more important, improved pensions. They were promised an improved pension of 2d. a day on being discharged for pension. I have looked through the Jerram Report and they are not dealt with. I have looked through the Halsey Report and they are not dealt with. I find they are being discharged to pension at only three halfpence a day increase. The only other Order that ever dealt with them was Admiralty Weekly Order, No 2483, Naval Officers Pay, Retired Pay and Allowances. It stated: No more warrant officers, Class 2, will be made, and the present officers of this class will be allowed to die out as the case occurs. Their successors will rank with and receive pay of chief petty officers of the Royal Navy with eight years' seniority. You created the rank, and you have never dealt with them since, and you retire them with an additional 1½d. instead of the 2d. which was promised. I think that case has only to be stated to demand attention. A further injustice in connection with these men is the Order prohibiting them from joining the Royal Fleet Reserve. By General Order 220, of December, 1919, Royal Marines holding the rank of warrant officer, class 2, or staff-sergeant, are ineligible for enrolment in the Royal Fleet Reserve. That has the result of preventing these men getting an additional 5d. at the age of 30, which is the equivalent of the Greenwich pension for those who join the Royal Fleet Reserve, and they have to wait until they are 55 before they receive it. If it is too late for the Parliamentary Secretary to deal with the matter, as he may have gone to another office, I hope it is one that will not be lost sight of, and that these men will be given the rights to which I submit they are fairly and justly entitled. The Royal Marines, which I regret to say, seems to be rather neglected.