Orders of the Day — Turks and Constantinople.

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at on 26 February 1920.

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All the fortifications which can be used to bar the Straits. That, I understand, is the position.

There are one or two preliminary observations I want to make. My right hon. Friend suggested that underlying this very considerable feeling which has been aroused in the country on this subject there was a kind of Christendom versus Crescent feeling. I do not know whether that is so or not, but so far as I am personally concerned I have been most careful in anything I have said in public to avoid any possibility that that was the attitude I personally took up. I feel quite as anxious to free Arabians from the domination and misrule of the Turks as any other of the subject races. The Arabians, whatever their merits, cannot be described as Christians. It has been suggested, L do not think by my right hon. Friend, that what we, who are anxious to see Turkish rule in Constantinople ended, propose, is to drive the Turks out of Constantinople. That is not at all our proposal. That would be a fantastic proposal and one for which there is no reason. If the Turkish population likes to remain there, no one wishes to turn it out. In the article to which reference has been made I said so expressly, and I said also that if the Sultan wished to remain there no one would wish to turn him out. The essential thing, according to our view, is to get rid of the Sublime Porte as the governors of Constantinople. That does not mean turning anyone out. It means merely that we are not to hand back Constantinople to the Turkish Government. The place is now in Allied hands, and what we shall do if the Treaty is carried out will be to hand it back to the Turkish Government.

I will deal presently with the point that my views when in office are different from my views when I am not in office. I do not know whether that has ever happened to my right hon. Friend. In this particular case I shall show that my right hon. Friend has been misled by extracts from speeches which I made in 1918. I will come to that in a moment. Why is it that we are anxious to get rid of Turkish rule? I am anxious for two principal reasons. In the first place, it is associated with some of the gravest and most disgusting crimes in history. It is unnecessary for me to elaborate that. I could not put it as strongly or as eloquently as my right hon. Friend put it in 1914. He described it in words which only be at the present day is capable of using. It is true that the occupation of Constantinople by the Turks, the holding of their European Empire, has meant the complete stagnation of every country that they occupy. Their rule has been soiled and stained by atrocities and outrages and massacres during the whole course of their dominion. My memory goes back to the great agitations in the 'Seventies, and I do not believe that even in those days there was the slightest hesitation or doubt that if you could get rid of the Turks from Constantinople without a European war it would be the best thing that could be done for Europe. It is certainly very many years since I held that opinion myself. Whether or not it was held by everyone in the 'Seventies, I do not know. My right hon. Friend has re-referred to the statement made at the time of the Crimean War, that we had "put our money on the wrong horse." The view then was that we ought not to have helped the Turks as we did.

The other reason I urge is that Constantinople, by reason partly of its history, by reason partly of its strategical and commercial position and a number of other circumstances, has always been the theatre of every disreputable European intrigue that has taken place—financial and political intrigue—and as long as it exists under the control of the Turk I am convinced that it will continue to be so, and that it will be the breeding place of those international disputes and misunderstandings which have too often led to serious difficulties in Europe. At any rate it may be regarded as indirectly partly responsible for the great War which has just come to an end. That is the broad case for getting the Turk out of Constantinople. But it is said that there are certain objections to that course. By far the most important is that which is founded upon Indian opinion. I need not say that we do not desire to hurt the feelings or prejudices of our Indian fellow-subjects. We would treat them with the greatest possible respect in the world. I am bound to say, though I do not wish to go into an elaborate argument as to Mahomedan feeling in that matter, that I think it very surprising that so strong a feeling should exist, if it does exist, about the maintenance of the Sultan in Constantinople. As I understand the position, there is not the slightest ground for maintaining that the Sultan is the Caliph of the Mahomedan people. You cannot really maintain that for five minutes. He is not entitled to it in any way. That is the ease which I am assured is true. Better judges than I am will be able to deal with that. It has been urged that the Sultan is entitled to the unquestioned allegiance of all Mahomedans. He certainly is not. Even if he is Caliph there is nothing about his remaining in Constantinople. For centuries the Caliph, the real Caliph, the true and undisputed Caliph of the Mahomedan faith, was not in Constantinople; he was in various other places.

As far as the Turks are concerned, what is Constantinople? It is not a national capital. It is not one of those things which have grown up with the race. It was taken five centuries ago from an entirely different civilisation, and has been occupied by the Turks as their great trophy of victory since that date. I do not say that that is a reason for taking it from them, but when we are considering this question it is important to get the proper atmosphere and the facts about this place. Not only is it not the capital, but I maintain, in spite of my right hon. Friend, that at the present time the great mass, the majority of the population, is not Turkish. I quite agree there is a dispute about that, but the evidence, the most impartial evidence and the best evidence, is that the Turks form about two-fifths of the population. Therefore, there really is not this great national or religious feeling, speaking generally, with regard to the presence of the Sultan at Constantinople. I am told that as a matter of fact Mahomedan feeling is very much divided on the point.

When we consider this question of Indian feeling, let us remember this—that from early in the War up to 5th January, 1918, it was a settled part of British policy to turn the Turks out of Constantinople That was undoubtedly so. The phrases of my right hon. Friend the Lord President of the Council (Mr. Balfour) have already been quoted. They were preceded by a distinct decision of the whole of the Allied forces. This was one of their main objects as stated in 1917: The setting free of the population subject to the tyranny of the Turk, and the turning out of Europe of the Ottoman Empire, as decidedly foreign to western civilisation. That was an avowed aim in 1917, and was defended by my right hon. Friend in a very remarkable dispatch which he issued in January in these words: It has been argued indeed that the expulsion of the Turks from Europe forms no proper or logical part of this general scheme. Then he goes on to argue that the Committee of Union and Progress have made it essential, and he concludes with the words: Evidently the interests of peace and the claims of nationality alike require that Turkish rule over alien races shall, if possible, be brought to an end, and we may hope that the expulsion of Turkey from Europe will contribute as much to the cause of peace as the restoration of Alsace Lorraine to France. It is said that that had reference only to handing over Constantinople to Russia. That is not true. It is very much wider than that. Whether the Russians have it, or anyone else has it, the great thing is that it is necessary for the peace of Europe to get rid of the Turks from Constantinople. I am surprised to hear my right hon. Friend treat that as only part of the arrangement with Russia. That went on right through all through the critical year of 1917 right up to the beginning of 1918, and it was only when my right hon. Friend made his pronouncement in 1918 that any doubt was thrown upon the matter. My right hon. Friend makes a personal point—not very unusual—and he says: Oh you were responsible for this declaration. Yes, I certainly was responsible. I was a Member of the Government; I was in charge of the Foreign Office, and I was present at the Cabinet meeting when the matter was considered. I did not draw the actual phrases to which my right hon. Friend alludes. I think the phrase, "Rich and renowned lands," bears a Celtic origin. I do not wish to suggest for a moment that I was not entirely responsible for that statement. I entirely approved of it. In the same circumstances I should make that statement again.

What were the circumstances at the beginning of 1918? My right hon. Friend said it was necessary to conciliate labour opinion. That may have been partly the object; but there was another object, and my right hon. Friend will not. I am sure, object if I refer to it. There were two objects. It was thought that two of our opponents, Turkey and Austria, were weakening in the struggle and we were anxious to detach them. My right hon. Friend will not deny that. The whole of that statement bears the impress of that desire. It was making the greatest possible concessions both to Turkey and to Austria that we could make. It was an offer of peace to them.