Motion for Select Committee

Part of Orders of the Day — Coal Industry. – in the House of Commons at on 28 November 1919.

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Photo of Sir Auckland Geddes Sir Auckland Geddes , Basingstoke

The members of the Advisory Board who were on the Coal Commission received the information which is contained in the White Paper on the 4th day of June of this year. It was published in all the Press on the 5th day of June, published in full in some of the larger newspapers, and I think on the 4th day of June, answering a question in this House, I drew attention to the figures which had been published. It will be remembered that in the Paper which appeared before the Commission the financial deficit which would arise upon the working of the coal mines, taking the findings of the Commission as part of the data, the financial deficit spread over the whole of the output would work out at the rate of 4s. 6d. per ton. It was afterwards discovered, not outside but within the office, that, although that was perfectly accurate as an arithmetical statement, it was not a statement of what would have to be done in the way of increase to meet the loss which would have to be met if the findings of the Sankey Commission were borne out by the facts. It was a perfectly simple calculation which has never once been disputed. The figures worked out at 6s. per ton on all the coal consumed inland. Those figures which were published on the 3rd June, which were before the Sankey Commission, which afterwards were republished for the convenience of the House as a White Paper, and which I think are familiar to all the Members of the House, were never at the time disputed. They had six weeks of publicity before the Debate took place in this House, six weeks during which they were open to criticism by that very critical body, the Royal Commission, which was inquiring into the coal-mining industry. It is quite true that the Report which was signed by Mr. Justice Sankey and by three of those who were associated with him on the Commission, Mr. Arthur Balfour, Sir Thomas Royden, and Sir Arthur Duckham, was not signed and was not accepted by those members of the Commission who were more especially identified with the miners' point of view, but the fact remains that the figures were never challenged at that period.

A further fact is remarkable. We are always being told—it is dinned into us from day to day, if not in this House, by meetings outside or by articles in the Press—that the estimated output was wrong. I know of no foundation for saying that the estimate of output was wrong. We have had so far since July some eighteen weeks. During the first ten weeks or thereabouts of that period we were still within that part of the year when, according to custom, holidays are taken in the mines and when the output is low. We are now in the period when, according to custom, holidays are not being taken among the miners, and the output is high. During those weeks which have elapsed we have actually obtained from the mines an output of 73,000,000 tons, which is at the rate of 203,000,000 tons a year. Anyone who has studied the curve of output in connection with the mining industry knows that the output rises during this period of the year, that it falls in the ordinary course about Christmas and the New Year, then for a further period it is fairly high again, but when spring comes and the holidays begin it falls again. I can find no paper where anyone speaking on behalf of the Govern- ment said there could not possibly be an improved output over the whole year. Our case the whole time was that we had from the start, because of transport difficulties, difficulties in connection with men newly back from the War, and difficulties with regard to stores, supplies, railways and machinery—we had at the beginning to accept an output for the first half of the year of 217,000,000 tons; but we always said the output might rise and that when it did rise prices would go down. That estimate of 217,000,000 tons was very strongly criticised by two hon. Members opposite, the right hon. Member for Abertillery (Mr. Brace) and the hon. Gentleman for the Ogmore Division (Mr. Hartshorn), and I must say that in that Debate, which we had on the 14th of July, the best speech was made by the hon. Member for the Ogmore Division, and it quite shook me. It was a most powerful speech. The hon. Member based his statement as to what the future held upon twenty years' experience, and he supported that statement by a wealth of figures and eloquence and an obvious knowledge and sincerity which carried conviction almost to the heart of the individual on the Treasury Bench. I really had to turn round to the Coal Controller, who sat behind me, and say, "Surely there must be something wrong in our figures?" And he said, "Well, I do not know. The hon. Member for Ogmore is pretty good."

But let me see what the hon. Member says. He told us the question was whether we could, under a seven-hour day, get a 237-ton output as against the average 263-ton output under an eight-hour day. Mr. Justice Sankey estimated that there would be a reduction of 10 per cent. consequent on the alteration of the number of hours worked per day, and a 10 per cent. reduction would reduce the 263 to 237 tons. Then he went on with an interesting historical passage, in which he referred to the Tonypandy incident, which, he said, culminated in a national strike. But notwithstanding the strike they produced an average of 263 tons per man per year in 1911—a year in which, according to himself, he was organising strikes. Then, he asked, "What is to prevent us producing 237 tons per man per year in future?" The answer to that I had given earlier in the day. It was that factors outside would prevent the output rising to that level. The hon. Member pointed out with great strength and emphasis that we were basing our ideas on the output for the time being of 183 tons per person employed per year. In a later speech, on the 4th November, he was even more sure that our figures were wrong. By that time the effect his speech had had upon me had worn off. He said there was no reason why we should not have 245 tons per man to-day as well as in 1913. There is no reason, but, in practice, you cannot do it. The figures which raised his contempt, figures which he told us were impossible—and I think I am not exaggerating when I say he suggested they were absurd—were 183 tons. These have proved by experience in the weeks which have elapsed to have been too sanguine an estimate for this particular period, for the actually ascertained figure of output per person employed in the industry since the hours were reduced is at the rate of 181½tons per person employed per year.