Cabinet Documents (Disclosure)

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 28 June 1976.

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Photo of Mr Eric Heffer Mr Eric Heffer , Liverpool, Walton 12:00, 28 June 1976

I am glad that I touched the right hon. Gentleman on the raw. [Interruption.] That is precisely what I did. I said that I felt that there was a degree of hypocrisy about his statement. I do not say that he is a hypocrite, and I have no intention of withdrawing my statement. The right hon. Gentleman said that this was not a nagging complaint but that he felt that the Government had not shown a proper depth of concern. The Leader of the House indicated very clearly that the Government have shown a proper depth of concern and have acted promptly in establishing an inquiry under a leading civil servant. Before my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister went to the Puerto Rico conference he was told by that civil servant that a statement would be made to him on his return. I should have thought that that action displayed a great and proper depth of concern.

The right hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends feel quite rightly that this is another opportunity to have a go at the Government. They are entitled to do that. If I were in their place I would be having a go at their Government and adopting their tactics. That is normal parliamentary practice and that it what we did or attempted to do on occasions when we were in Opposition. I remember one cowboys and Indians escapade when we hid in a room nearby, but that was a complete failure. Nevertheless, it was legitimate parliamentary activity.

The argument about open government is a matter of the greatest concern. I agree with my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House that on the one hand efforts have to be made to protect Government secrecy and on the other to give the fullest information to the public at large. I should like to know what is or what is not a Government secret, what should be and what should not be a Government secret. This is an intriguing issue because there is great mystery about secrecy in government. It operates very nicely to the benefit of the Government and the Executive, and to the detriment of Back Benchers. Secrecy in government operates to the advantage of any Government whoever they are. Of course, these great secrets of government are no secrets at all. When I was a Minister I could never understand why all the documents that we received stamped "Confidential", "Top Secret" and so on—apart from the fact that lots of them had found their way into the Press already—needed to be secret.

The other myth is that members of Governments never have arguments or differences on any issue. They always have arguments. There is conflict in every Department, between Departments, between Ministers and the Prime Minister and between other Ministers. It is no good pretending otherwise. Why should we do that? Why not say to the world that Governments are composed of ordinary mortals who are there because they have been elected to the House of Commons on a programme of action and that there are differences as to the best way of carrying out that programme? I can see no reason for surrounding the Government with all this mystery.

The security of the country is, of course, of vital importance and there we must know when to draw the line. I refer, of course, to the security of our people in relation to external enemies. But we are not discussing that now. We are here concerned with the argument about whether, given the nature of the economic crisis, the child benefit scheme should be introduced now, in six months time or in a year's time. There is an economic crisis, and there is a respect- able argument that the scheme could be postponed for a period because of it. I have no objection to knowing that there are those inside the Government who argue that point of view, and that there are others who argue to the contrary.