Saudi Arabia

– in Westminster Hall at 11:00 am on 24 July 2007.

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Photo of Daniel Kawczynski Daniel Kawczynski Conservative, Shrewsbury and Atcham 11:00, 24 July 2007

It is a great pleasure to have the opportunity to debate Anglo-Saudi relations under your chairmanship, Miss Begg. Before I start, I should state that I am a member of the all-party group on Saudi Arabia. I am pleased to see that our chairman, Jim Sheridan, found the time to attend the debate, and I welcome him.

There are 20,000 British citizens living and working in Saudi Arabia, which is by far our largest export market in the middle east. The Saudi royal family have close contact with our own. I am pleased that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office acknowledged the country's importance, and that quite a number of Ministers have visited Riyadh during the past few years.

I have studied the middle east during the two years that I have been an MP, and I have been increasingly interested in Saudi Arabia's role in that part of the world. I thank Prince Sultan al-Saud, the head of the political desk at the Saudi embassy, and His Highness Prince Mohammed, the ambassador, whom I have met on a number of occasions. They are great representatives of their country and do a tremendous job here in London. I thank them for that and for the assistance that they have given me.

Saudi Arabia is a key strategic ally, and one that is growing in influence. It has displaced the United States as well as the historical Arab diplomatic heavyweight, Egypt, as the regional power broker in the middle east. For example, at the 2002 Arab League summit in Beirut, the Saudis first proposed their peace plan for the Israel-Palestine conflict and managed to secure the support of the other Arab League members in that extremely important initiative. I shall discuss it later, but needless to say, it offers recognition and peace to Israel if it withdraws back to its pre-1967 borders.

The Saudis have also been involved in trying to bring Hamas and Fatah together in Palestine, applying pressure to get those two increasingly conflicting and hostile groups to work with one another to ensure peace in the Gaza strip and throughout Palestine. Saudi Arabia has also tried to create peace between the Sunnis and Hezbollah in Lebanon.

It is not well known that the Saudi king, Abdullah, has been instrumental in trying to convince the President of Sudan to accept a multinational force in Darfur. That is encouraging. As the Minister will know, in the '70s, '80s and even the early '90s, Saudi Arabia was not a big diplomatic player, tending to focus instead on domestic politics. Considering all the incredibly important initiatives that it is pursuing, not just near its borders but in other countries throughout the middle east, it is clear that it is playing an increasing role in negotiations and diplomacy. Saudi Arabia is a moderate, stable ally of the UK and a key strategic influence that we must cultivate.

I thank the Foreign Office—I do not normally go out of my way to do so—for its initiative on one issue. The United Kingdom is the first Christian country to organise an official Hajj delegation to assist the 20,000 British Muslims who go to Mecca every year. FCO staff have met members of the Muslim community at the Islamic centre in Regent's park.

Photo of Mark Pritchard Mark Pritchard Conservative, The Wrekin

I am glad that my hon. Friend touched on the issue of religion. Does he share my concern that Saudi Arabia, mostly through the religious police, continues to repress religious minorities, not least Christians? They are mostly expatriate Christians, but also Saudis who have converted to Christianity from Islam. Is he aware that under Saudi law, people can be put to death for changing their views, minds and hearts about what religion to follow? If they leave Islam to convert to Christianity, or any other religion for that matter, they can be put to death. Will he condemn that policy?

Photo of Daniel Kawczynski Daniel Kawczynski Conservative, Shrewsbury and Atcham

I was rather hoping to concentrate on the positive side of our relations with Saudi Arabia. My hon. Friend has thrown me something of a googly, but I thank him for his intervention. Of course we regret persecution of Christians anywhere in the world. I know that the FCO does its utmost in many countries to voice concerns where there is systematic persecution of Christians.

Photo of Mark Pritchard Mark Pritchard Conservative, The Wrekin

I did not wish to throw my hon. Friend a googly—I was hoping that it would be a straight ball, which he usually hits to the boundary for a six—but it was a serious point. Last year, four east African Christians were detained for more than a month in very poor conditions and then deported, which has caused severe hardship to their families, as they were in Saudi Arabia raising money to send back home. Does not an inconsistency lie at the heart of the Saudi Government? Whether in Kosovo or elsewhere, they fund the building of mosques throughout Europe, where we allow religious freedom, but they will not allow even small groups to meet for Christian worship in Saudi Arabia.

S

This is a good question that deserves a direct answer. Why indeed is the freedom of Christians to worship freely not allowed in Saudi Arabia yet Saudi Arabia is allowed to fund the building of mosques in non-muslim countries? There is an intolerance of all other faiths at the heart of Islam.

Submitted by Stephen Cox Read 1 more annotation

Photo of Daniel Kawczynski Daniel Kawczynski Conservative, Shrewsbury and Atcham

If my hon. Friend has any examples of people being persecuted because of their Christian faith, I shall be happy to discuss them on his behalf with His Highness Prince Sultan at the embassy.

Photo of Jim Sheridan Jim Sheridan Labour, Paisley and Renfrewshire North

It is right and proper to raise the question of persecution in Saudi Arabia or anywhere else, but I point out that Saudi Arabia is a young and growing democracy. This country, a long-standing democracy, has persecuted people because of religion—we need look no further than Northern Ireland.

Photo of Daniel Kawczynski Daniel Kawczynski Conservative, Shrewsbury and Atcham

I concur totally. It is true that we in the west like to think our values and codes are relevant throughout the world, but we must understand that different countries operate differently, and their societies are at different levels of development. We cannot compare them with us according to our western values and principles.

Photo of Daniel Kawczynski Daniel Kawczynski Conservative, Shrewsbury and Atcham

If he will allow me, I shall give way in a moment. The Foreign Office meets the Muslim community at the Islamic centre in Regent's park, the Saudi ambassador attends and the FCO provides tremendous help in sorting out the logistics of ensuring that 20,000 British Muslims have a safe and secure trip to Mecca. I thank the Foreign Office for that work.

To turn briefly to the defence industry, we owe a great debt of gratitude to the Saudis for entrusting us with their security. Over the years, they have spent a great deal of money purchasing British defence machinery. Tens of thousands of British jobs depend on those exports. We have secured exports worth billions of pounds to this country.

Margaret Thatcher, the then Conservative Prime Minister—I have to put in a plug for her—did a tremendous job in the '80s on securing those contracts, as did her Ministers. I am pleased to see that the Labour Administration have continued such important negotiations in trying to secure further contracts. In June, I believe, the Secretary of State for Defence went to Saudi Arabia to discuss a contract for 72 Eurofighter Typhoon jets. I should be grateful if the Minister gave me an update on how those negotiations are going. The contract is worth billions of pounds; securing the sale of those 72 Typhoon jets would be a tremendous boost to our economy.

I shall come to our other opportunities with Saudi Arabia, but I should first say that the Prime Minister should appoint a special trade envoy to the kingdom. He has appointed quite a few envoys recently; there is even an envoy for forests, Barry Gardiner, whom I saw speaking in this Chamber the other day.

Why should the Prime Minister appoint an envoy to Saudi Arabia? Well, he has appointed an outsider, now Lord Jones of Birmingham, as global trade envoy. One can generally be pleased with that appointment, although I have some issues with the individual. The general concept of having somebody from outside in such a position is a good one. We need a special envoy to Saudi Arabia because of its huge size and the huge potential of our contracts with it. We need an outside expert who knows Saudi Arabia extremely well; who knows the culture and has a long-established network in the country.

Photo of Jim Devine Jim Devine Labour, Livingston

The hon. Gentleman has referred to Comrade Jones, as we know him, who is doing a wonderful job for us. The hon. Gentleman has also mentioned cultural links, and it is important that we recognise their effect on jobs. Will he also mention sporting links? The Saudi people have a great love of horse racing and football.

Photo of Daniel Kawczynski Daniel Kawczynski Conservative, Shrewsbury and Atcham

I gave way to the hon. Gentleman because he is one of the very few socialists whom I genuinely like—[Laughter.]

Photo of Jim Devine Jim Devine Labour, Livingston

Miss Begg, can that be struck from the record?

Photo of Daniel Kawczynski Daniel Kawczynski Conservative, Shrewsbury and Atcham

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that the Saudi Arabians participate greatly in horse racing in our country. They are also becoming better at football; I wish them every success in the World cup. We look forward to their continuing sporting links with our country.

I come back to my point, which I make seriously to the Minister. If the Prime Minister is to start appointing outsiders as envoys, he should please consider having a special envoy—if not to Saudi Arabia, then at least to the middle east. Such a person could be responsible for nurturing trade with those vital countries.

I take the Minister back to 1990, when we first saw tremendous co-operation from Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf war. She showed herself to be a great beacon of stability and hosted tens of thousands of our troops on her territory. That was not easy to sell domestically, given the nature of the country, yet she realised at the time the importance of standing shoulder to shoulder with Britain, following the United Nations Security Council resolutions and making sure that Saddam Hussein was expelled from Kuwait.

Photo of Mark Pritchard Mark Pritchard Conservative, The Wrekin

My hon. Friend has mentioned Saudis on Saudi soil, and obviously that is logical. As a fellow Shropshire Member of Parliament, may I ask him whether he is aware of Saudis on Shropshire soil? Some 40 or 50 Saudi nationals are training at the Defence College of Aeronautical Engineering at RAF Cosford in my constituency in the county of Shropshire. Does he join me in welcoming those people to Shropshire and hoping that that trade and exchange will continue?

Photo of Daniel Kawczynski Daniel Kawczynski Conservative, Shrewsbury and Atcham

I wholeheartedly support my hon. Friend's statement. What he has mentioned is another example of how much the Saudi Arabians entrust us with the training of their pilots in the defence industry.

The Saudis not only hosted us in 1990 but participated with the allied troops in liberating Kuwait. However, if we move 13 years forward to the second Gulf war of 2003, we see a slightly different situation. Having spoken to my Saudi friends, I know that Saudi Arabia warned against the invasion. They lobbied heavily and extensively. They warned the allies not to invade Iraq as they felt that it would lead to certain problems down the line. Being local experts and knowing the area as they do, they also suggested that we, having taken over the country and occupied it in March-April 2003, should keep some of the principal state apparatus intact to manage the society and country effectively.

That, of course, was not done—primarily because the Americans wished to start anew. I regret that, and feel that Saudi Arabia should not have been sidelined. Her advice should have been clearly taken on, both in the run-up to the war and following the subsequent occupation. We could have avoided many problems if we had listened more carefully to our Saudi allies before, during and after the invasion.

The invasion has left our friends, the Saudis, with a tremendous headache, as they now neighbour such a volatile and unstable country. The Minister will know that Saudi Arabia's border with Iraq is longer than 900 miles. The Saudis have spent tens and tens of millions of pounds on constructing what is in effect a Berlin wall on that frontier and trying to police those hundreds of miles of desert with barbed wire fences and radar to stop the insurgents from coming across the boundary and infiltrating Saudi Arabia.

A critical advancement of Anglo-Saudi relations is our understanding of their peace plan for the Palestine-Israeli conflict, on which I want to focus with the Minister. As I said, in Beirut in 2002, the Saudi Arabians put to the Arab League their peace initiative for Palestine and Israel. Five years later, at the Arab League Riyadh summit of 2007, Saudi Arabia again managed to get the league to reaffirm its commitment to the peace plan. It is extremely important that the plan should be debated and implemented; extremist Muslim organisations such as Hamas will only continue to get stronger unless the terrible tragedy is rectified.

The Saudi proposal would give Israel peace and recognition if she withdrew to her '67 borders. It calls for an independent Palestinian state, with East Jerusalem as its capital. Let us pause for a moment and think about that—it is extraordinary that a country such as Saudi Arabia, together with her Arab partners, should come forward with a plan so revolutionary and imaginative as to say, "If you withdraw to your pre-'67 borders, we—all of us in the Arab world—will guarantee you recognition and give you peace."

For me, that is breathtaking and something that our Parliament here in Britain should deliberate on and discuss far more extensively. The Saudi peace plan is so inspiring. If we are to have peace in Palestine, we need to ensure that the Arab League supports it and that it is in favour of the initiatives that we take.

Photo of Daniel Kawczynski Daniel Kawczynski Conservative, Shrewsbury and Atcham

I shall give way in a second.

The peace plan is extraordinary. It goes on to say that there has to be an agreed and just solution to the issue of Palestinian refugees. The Saudis say that we must recognise the injustices that have been perpetrated on the Palestinian refugees. What are the options for those refugees, if we go back to the pre-1967 borders? Some may return to their lands; others may wish to seek compensation. An international committee will have to deal with that compensation—perhaps there could be funding from international bodies such as the UN, who knows? The other alternative is that some refugees will simply not go back. They have made their homes all around the world, in Europe and north America. They may not go back to their lands. However, a vital part of the peace initiative is justice for the Palestinian refugees. I cannot emphasise enough my thinking that that initiative should be taken forward.

Our former Prime Minister, Mr. Blair, is heading the Quartet's look at the peace initiative, representing the US, Russia, the EU and the UN. I hope that Mr. Blair will attend the next meeting of the Arab League, and I shall be writing to him to ask him to do so. I hope that he will listen to the Arab League about the peace initiative. My understanding—the Minister may correct me if I am wrong—is that no British Prime Minister has ever attended the Arab League, yet it will invite any international statesman who wishes to attend. Recently, the Norwegian Prime Minister attended a meeting. Our former Prime Minister should attend the Arab League meeting, listen to the peace initiative and show that he is willing to take on its views. I will give way to my hon. Friend; I am being generous with him, as always.

Photo of Mark Pritchard Mark Pritchard Conservative, The Wrekin

I thank my hon. Friend; I was about to say the same thing, before he mentioned it. On the issue of the wider Arab countries, does he agree that the stability of the region as a whole, including the Palestinian territory and Lebanon, would be better served and helped if those Arab countries financed the building of schools, hospitals and infrastructure rather than financing the army and equipping militia groups and terrorist organisations?

Photo of Daniel Kawczynski Daniel Kawczynski Conservative, Shrewsbury and Atcham

I concur that it would be interesting to know—we should try to find out more about this—how much money the Arab League gives to educational projects in areas of conflict such as Palestine. We in the European Union, and particularly in Britain, play our part in financing Palestine and the Gaza strip and in giving development aid to that territory. We have to do everything possible to ensure that the Arab League and wealthy states, such as Saudi Arabia, play their part in financing vital educational and humanitarian projects in those areas of conflict. I agree totally with my hon. Friend.

I want to talk now about how Saudi Arabia is fighting the war on terror. In April 2007, Saudi Arabia announced the arrest of 172 suspected terrorists. The Interior Ministry said that detainees had reached

"an advance stage of readiness and what remained only was to set the zero hour for their attacks".

In this country, we have recently had to make a number of arrests, regrettably, due to the increasing threat to our security. When people are arrested on suspicion of terrorism, it receives a great deal of media attention and coverage. It is difficult to imagine having to arrest 172 suspected terrorists. Many terrorists are infiltrating Saudi Arabia who have been trained in Afghanistan, Iraq and other parts of the world. Saudi Arabia is facing a hugely difficult situation in trying to cope and grapple with that. Ultimately, as we all know, it has been ramped up since May 2003 following our invasion of Iraq.

According to official figures, about 144 foreigners and Saudis, including security personnel, and 120 militants have died in attacks and clashes with police since May 2003. Those are significant figures, as the Minister will acknowledge. In May 2003, al-Qaeda suicide bombers hit western housing compounds in Riyadh. In May 2004, 22 people, including an American, a Briton and an Italian, died in an attack on an oil company and housing compounds in al-Khobar. Days later, gunmen killed Simon Cumbers, an Irish cameraman working for the BBC, and seriously wounded his British colleague, Frank Gardner, as they filmed in Riyadh.

I have it on good authority from my contacts in Saudi Arabia that over the past five years they have foiled 180 separate plots of insurgency within their country. No one can doubt the Saudi Arabians' effort in tackling international terrorism. The Minister knows, far better than I do, the help that our country gets from intelligence from Saudi Arabia. He knows, far better than me, a mere Back Bencher, what happens in the communication between Saudi Arabia and our security forces. I would bet my bottom dollar that the help that we are getting from Saudi Arabia to deal with insurgency and terrorism internationally is phenomenal. I am convinced of that. We owe a debt of gratitude to our allies, who show so much confidence in us and are prepared to share so much with us to enable us to deal with the increasing threat of terrorism.

I come now to the Gulf, which is a hugely important territory of water, and, in particular, to the strait of Hormuz. As the Minister knows, that strait is pivotal in securing oil supplies not only for us but for the entire world. Saudi Arabia's eastern fleet patrols that part of the world. Up until now, France and the United States have been leading the way in supplying Saudi Arabia with all the necessary vessels for its eastern fleet. We must do everything possible to provide Saudi Arabia with British ships for that fleet. We have the best naval vessels in the world, far superior to those of the French and the Americans, so we should be saying loudly to the Saudi Arabians, "Buy British. Buy your vessels for your eastern fleet from the United Kingdom."

In March 2007, Jane's Defence Weekly stated that the royal Saudi naval force had an interest in type 45 air defence destroyers. According to that journal, between two and four ships could be purchased. That would realise, for us, up to £2.5 billion, providing a great many more jobs and more investment in our country. I would be grateful if the Minister could give me an update on that, and assure me that everything is being done to ensure that Saudi Arabia seriously considers British naval capabilities for modernising, upgrading and expanding her eastern fleet, which will inevitably do a great amount to help us safeguard the future and safety of the strait of Hormuz.

The Minister will be pleased to hear that I am nearing the end of my speech, but I come briefly to the domestic front. Regrettably, I must say the most controversial thing that I shall say—even I have to be controversial at times. I am absolutely appalled by the honour of a knighthood to Salman Rushdie, and I believe that it should be rescinded. I should like to know who made the recommendation of a knighthood. In my estimation it was such crass management, such ineptitude, that it must have been either a deliberate provocation or incompetence of an unimaginable scale. Who suggested that our sovereign give such a huge honour to such a man? Not only is his writing appalling, but the fact that he has insulted Islam means that the honour is a deliberate provocation of Saudi Arabia and other moderate allies.

The honour gives succour to the fanatics in Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries to fight the regimes in place, such as King Abdullah's and the Governments who want to align themselves and show solidarity with the west. Ultimately, they will say, "There you are—you are negotiating and dealing with people who deliberately give honours to people who blaspheme against our religion." I am sorry to end on a relatively negative note, but we must be extremely careful not to upset our key moderate allies.

I end by saying to the Minister that I shall continue, as long as I am a Member of Parliament, to promote Anglo-Saudi relations. Why? Because I genuinely believe that Saudi Arabia plays, and will continue to play, an increasingly important role in the stability of the middle east and in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I hope that we will continue extensive ministerial visits to Riyadh and that we will invite senior members of the royal family to our country. I hope that the Minister can assure me that there will be a visit before too long. I would also be extremely grateful if he could assure me that everything possible is being done to ensure that our countries are brought ever closer together.

Photo of Jim Sheridan Jim Sheridan Labour, Paisley and Renfrewshire North 11:32, 24 July 2007

I begin by congratulating Daniel Kawczynski on securing this important debate. I intend to make a brief speech, which is no reflection on the debate or on Saudi Arabia; it reflects the fact that the hon. Gentleman has covered many of the issues involved eloquently and comprehensively.

I first visited Saudi Arabia approximately two years ago with the all-party group. I was stunned by the manner in which the Saudi Arabian people received us and behaved during the visit, which was nothing but courteous all the way. From the outset we met enthusiasm, particularly from young people. I said earlier that Saudi Arabia is striving for democracy, and the young people whom I met have a great appetite for it. They recognise the benefits of the current system but feel that there is a need for change. They are definitely up for change, and that particularly came across in the universities, where we went to see young people. The facilities that they have and the quality of the training and education are second to none, and the young people reminded us at every opportunity that that education system is based on the British one and that they are striving to achieve the level of education that we have.

Another thing that we saw in Saudi Arabia was the role of women. You may be aware, Miss Begg, that women are not treated very well there, judged by our standards and values, but, as the hon. Gentleman said earlier, it would be wrong for us to impose our values on another country. It will have to learn from its own mistakes, as we in this country did. The women there are looking for radical change. For instance, they are not allowed to drive cars, which is one thing that they are now saying that they would like to do, rather than having to depend on their husbands or brothers to drive them around.

If we look at the history of Britain—it is true of any country—we see that we have made an awful lot of mistakes that we are not proud of. When people set out to discredit Saudi Arabia, particularly in this country, they should remember that we do not have a perfect history and that we learned only from history. For us to lecture other countries that are trying to achieve the level of democracy that we have would be wrong. We should be doing everything that we can to help people in Saudi Arabia, particularly young people. If there is going to be change and transition, it should be peaceful.

When we were over there, we met the Saudi chamber of commerce. It was extremely disappointed by the lack of interest from British companies in securing more business from Saudi Arabia. It asked us to encourage the British Chambers of Commerce to be more proactive in encouraging British companies to do business there—not just the BAE Systems of this world but other companies in the UK that would benefit from working alongside the Saudi Arabians. That was encouraging.

One downside was that we were there just at the time when British Airways unfortunately decided to withdraw from Saudi Arabia. That sent a profound and unfortunate message to the Saudi Arabians that Britain did not want to be part of the new business culture there. It was a rather unfortunate incident. When British Airways pulled out, other companies moved in, and there are lessons to be learned from that.

I am proud of the role that BAE Systems has played in Saudi Arabia and of the jobs that it has created in this country. Just outside my constituency, the shipyards on the Clyde are building ships for BAE Systems and other systems that can be used in defence mechanisms in Saudi Arabia. That is creating a great deal of wealth for the country, producing apprenticeships and giving training and good-quality paid jobs to people who might not otherwise have got them.

Photo of Daniel Kawczynski Daniel Kawczynski Conservative, Shrewsbury and Atcham

On the hon. Gentleman's point about British Airways pulling out of direct flights to Saudi Arabia, has he, as chairman of the all-party group, had the opportunity to communicate our frustrations to British Airways? If not, is he prepared to meet British Airways with me to ask it to explain why it cut that service?

Photo of Jim Sheridan Jim Sheridan Labour, Paisley and Renfrewshire North

I thank the hon. Gentleman for the intervention. At the time, the then chairman of the all-party group wrote to British Airways expressing our displeasure at the way that it had behaved. I would be more than happy to arrange yet another meeting with BA to see whether it will reconsider its position. My concern is that the market that was there for British Airways may now have gone. I may be wrong, but I think that it is Lufthansa that has moved in and taken up that market. I am more than happy to try to arrange a meeting with senior people at British Airways to attempt to re-engage that market because, if nothing else, it would send a clear message to the Saudi Arabians that British companies want to do business. I can think of no better way to communicate that than for British Airways to fly the British flag into Riyadh, which would send a clear message that things had changed.

On the whole question of jobs and BAE Systems, I think that this country would be worse off both financially and in job terms if we were to try to distance ourselves from Saudi Arabia. People will always think of reasons to find fault with other countries, but that is not helpful in the present instance.

On the peace initiative, I would like our new peace envoy to visit Saudi Arabia and do all that he can to ensure that peace can be sought in the unstable region that is the middle east. There is no doubt whatever in my mind that there will only be peace in the region if Saudi Arabia is at the heart of it. In my view, Saudi Arabia is the only country in the middle east that can deliver a sustainable peace and act as an honest peace broker in that region.

I am confident that, if Britain tries to exclude itself, whether it be in relation to jobs, education, universities or whatever, other countries will move in and fill the vacuum. We are extremely proud of the young people who are now being educated the length and breadth of Britain. Saudi Arabian students have a big interest in Edinburgh, for instance, which is greatly appreciated.

I said that I wanted to be brief. The only thing left to say is that I would like to see what the Government can do to embrace Saudi officials and diplomats and to ensure that they are friends of this country and welcome here. Any formal visits that can be arranged should be arranged. The Government should be doing all that they can to encourage Saudi Arabians to come here, and to encourage British companies to go to Saudi Arabia and learn and share our common interests, so that both countries can develop and grow for the future.

Photo of Mark Hunter Mark Hunter Shadow Minister (Home Affairs) 11:42, 24 July 2007

I start by thanking Daniel Kawczynski for securing the debate, especially in light of recent tensions between the two Governments; the debate is timely to say the least. He gave an eloquent although, I am bound to say, rather partial account of the current state of our relationship with the Saudi Arabian Government.

Let me make it clear at the outset of my remarks that we should not underestimate the importance of Saudi Arabia. It has enormous influence in the region, as other hon. Members have said, and it has an invaluable relationship with the UK. It is our largest export market in the region—UK exports reached some £1.4 billion in 2002. We also have a close relationship with the Saudis on security matters. Our co-operation on terrorism is well known and highly necessary, as is the Saudi influence in the middle east peace process, to which hon. Members have referred as well. A close relationship with Saudi Arabia is of course worth preserving, not least because the issues that divide us can be resolved only through persistent dialogue.

That said, there is another side to the relationship from the side that we have heard much about in the debate. Before I reach the main part of my speech, let me say that I think that it would be wrong not to talk a little more about the human rights situation in Saudi Arabia and how that impacts on its relationship with the United Kingdom.

There is no doubt in the international community that there is still serious concern about the human rights situation in Saudi Arabia. The incidence of capital punishment in particular is clearly on the increase. This year there have already been 102 executions, compared with 38 in 2006. Discrimination against women has already been spoken of. It continues to be widespread and invidious, as do limitations on freedom of expression.

Photo of Daniel Kawczynski Daniel Kawczynski Conservative, Shrewsbury and Atcham

The hon. Gentleman mentions capital punishment in Saudi Arabia. We have many more debates on the United States in this Chamber than on Saudi Arabia, yet I have never known any hon. Member to criticise the Americans for having capital punishment. For some reason, however, when middle eastern countries are mentioned, capital punishment is always referred to. It is disingenuous of us to treat Saudi Arabia differently from the United States.

Photo of Mark Hunter Mark Hunter Shadow Minister (Home Affairs)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, but I have to say that colleagues and I have a very simple view on human rights, which is that they are indivisible and that they apply to all of us—wherever we are in the world and of whatever religion or faith we are. I am just as keen to make similar points about other countries, including the United States, where the death penalty is still in use. However, the United States is not among those countries that still routinely indulge in amputations—another of the human rights abuses that has been laid at the door of the Saudi Arabian Government by bodies such as Amnesty International.

I want to be fair, however. It is true that Saudi Arabia has now established a national human rights association, but it is also fair to say that in many areas its actions still seem to speak far more loudly than its words. Let me make one further point on that. Amnesty has recently drawn the public's attention to the example of Rizana Nafeek, a girl of 19 who is being sentenced to death for a crime committed when she was just 17. That is despite Saudi Arabia having signed the convention on the rights of the child, which specifically prohibits the execution of offenders for crimes that were committed when they were under 18. As it happens, it has also signed the international convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination against women. Yet, as hon. Members have said, it continues to discriminate against women in many ways. If signatory countries are allowed to behave in a way that flies in the face of the conventions that they sign, as Saudi Arabia seems to have done, that surely undermines the effectiveness of the relevant documents and treaties.

I should like to hear from the Minister what the Government are doing to ensure that Saudi Arabia abides by the human rights agreements that they have already signed up to. Will he tell us his view of countries which sign such agreements and then fail to abide by them?

Photo of Jim Sheridan Jim Sheridan Labour, Paisley and Renfrewshire North

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right on the question of discrimination against women. He may recall, however, that it is not that long since we discriminated against women in this country by denying them the right to vote.

Photo of Mark Hunter Mark Hunter Shadow Minister (Home Affairs)

I welcome the hon. Gentleman's intervention. He makes a point, but I am not sure that the comparison is truly valid. It is some years since women were denied the right to vote in this country and, although the situation changed all too late in the opinion of many hon. Members, I do not entirely accept the analogy between what happened here and the kind of discrimination to which I am referring. We have heard about the limitations on women's right to drive; they need written permission from a male in order to drive cars and so on. That is a type of discrimination that is entirely out of place in a modern society.

It would be impossible to discuss the current state of relations with Saudi Arabia without touching on the events surrounding the BAE Systems Al-Yamamah arms deal and the way in which it has affected the UK's relationship with Saudi Arabia. The investigation into that deal by the Serious Fraud Office continues to put considerable pressure on the UK's relationship with the Saudis.

One of the greatest tragedies of the alleged BAE Systems corruption is that it has besmirched the name of a fine British company, its dedicated work force, and the BAE Systems Woodford site in my constituency. I, too, am deeply concerned about the lasting damage done to the reputation of British business abroad and about the impact on British jobs at home. That does not alter the fact that valid questions need to be asked about the contracts and about how our relationship with Saudi Arabia affected the decision to abandon the Serious Fraud Office investigation into the BAE deal with the Saudis. The exact reasons for dropping the SFO inquiry are still somewhat unclear. As the matter has been discussed at great length by my colleagues on the Floor of the House, it is perhaps inappropriate to go into much more detail today. Suffice it to say that allegations have been made by the BBC, The Guardian and others that the deal was not limited to a single company or individual, but reached into the very heart of the Government. If the allegations are correct, the Government certainly have questions to answer and need to live up to some of their promises on accountable government and ethical foreign policy.

One of the reasons for dropping the inquiry was certainly pressure from the Saudi Arabian Government themselves—an issue that we think deserves to be probed further. Mr. Blair himself said that the SFO investigation would have wrecked the relationship with Saudi Arabia if he had allowed it to continue. I understand that the Saudi Arabian Government were reported to have threatened to pull out of the arms deal and to cut off diplomatic and intelligence ties if the investigation continued. Although there is no doubt that the investigation would have put a strain on Saudi Arabian and UK relations, the decision to drop it was in our opinion fundamentally wrong and inexplicable in the circumstances. Not only has the individual involved on the Saudi side of the arrangement now been named and shamed but the US is still determined to investigate the matter further, and, as we know, the US has arguably as much to lose as we do in Saudi Arabia.

Photo of Daniel Kawczynski Daniel Kawczynski Conservative, Shrewsbury and Atcham

The hon. Gentleman says that the individual has been named and shamed, but no such thing has happened. They have not been shamed because nothing has been proven. The BBC and others have simply made spurious allegations. I suspected that the Liberal Democrats would try to rake up the problems of BAE Systems again and I regret that the hon. Gentleman has done so. When we consider all the problems that our constituents are facing in this country—for example, with housing, floods and other issues—for the Liberal Democrats to use one of their Opposition days to debate a probe into BAE Systems was shocking, appalling and a gross abuse of the priorities of the House. I hope that he will move on and concentrate on the positive side of our relations and the vital importance of trade, rather than raking up such regrettable matters.

Photo of Mark Hunter Mark Hunter Shadow Minister (Home Affairs)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, which was surprising only in the sense that it took him so long to rise to his feet to make that point. In the context of today's debate on UK relations with Saudi Arabia it would seem ridiculous not to spend at least some time discussing what is currently the single most prominent issue in that relationship, whether the hon. Gentleman likes it or not. As I said when I started my remarks, this subject has barely been touched on by the hon. Members who have spoken so far. It would be quite wrong for us not to give a proper airing to something of genuine concern.

Hon. Members will know that the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development is still considering the issues relating to BAE Systems. It should concern us greatly that, although the UK is a signatory of the 1997 OECD convention on bribery, by halting the investigation, the Government are undermining its effectiveness. The chair of the OECD said that the decision by the Attorney-General to halt the investigation was contrary to article 5 of the convention, which states that inquiries

"shall not be influenced by considerations of national economic interest, the potential effect upon relations with another state, or the identity of the natural or legal persons involved".

The point is clear: nobody is above the law. An independent investigation needs to take place to determine whether there was any wrongdoing.

Although we do not underestimate the importance of our relationship and ties with Saudi Arabia, particularly in relation to security in the middle east, we stand by the OECD convention that any effect on the relationship between the countries involved should not prevent an investigation from continuing. Given those circumstances, perhaps the Minister will tell us what form the warnings from Saudi Arabia took. What was the Government's initial reaction when Saudi Arabia threatened to break off diplomatic intelligence relations? Did the Foreign and Commonwealth Office attempt to pursue the matter through all available channels before the Government made the decision to drop the inquiry?

In addition, was there any discussion at the time about how credible the threats were? I raise the issue of credibility because it should be said that Saudi Arabia needs a relationship with us perhaps as much as we need one with it. Saudi Arabia has security concerns of its own, on which it needs our co-operation. According to the FCO, Saudi Arabia relies on the UK because we are its joint fourth largest investor. Surely the threat of cutting off all diplomatic and intelligence ties was, if not empty, at least unlikely. Does the Minister agree that the Saudi Government's threats to withdraw security co-operation unless the inquiry was dropped were simply unacceptable? Does he not think that we have set a dangerous precedent to Saudi Arabia and other countries with whom we co-operate? Have any of the other countries that are being investigated in relation to BAE Systems made similar threats in response to the investigation?

Finally, if, as it seems, our diplomatic links failed on that occasion, how does the Minister envisage the relationship with Saudi Arabia continuing once our Government have accepted the ultimatum? Such questions need to be answered. It is extremely important that there is greater parliamentary accountability on such matters and we need to ensure that there is greater transparency in our Government's dealings with the Saudi Arabian Government.

Photo of David Lidington David Lidington Shadow Minister (Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs) 11:57, 24 July 2007

I congratulate my hon. Friend Daniel Kawczynski on securing the debate. We look forward to the Minister's response, particularly in view of the reference on today's Order Paper to a written ministerial statement announcing a state visit by the King of Saudi Arabia to this country. I hope that the Minister will enlighten us about that.

When introducing the debate, my hon. Friend was right to point to the breadth of interests that bring together the United Kingdom and Saudi Arabia. We have a long-standing set of relationships with the various countries of the Arabian peninsula, and this debate gives us the opportunity to reassert the importance of those relationships, particularly the one that we have with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. At times, there has been a danger that we have neglected those historic ties and there is certainly evidence that our partners and competitors in France and Germany have mounted a vigorous programme of bilateral contacts with Riyadh and other capitals in the region.

I would like the Government to lead a long-term effort, with cross-party support, to elevate the United Kingdom's relations with all countries in the Gulf. As my hon. Friend pointed out, such an initiative would cover a wide range of political subjects, such as economic and commercial co-operation, security ties, links between the Parliaments and educational institutions in our various countries, cultural links, co-operation against terrorism and nuclear proliferation, and sporting ties, which Mr. Devine, who is no longer in his place, mentioned.

Photo of David Lidington David Lidington Shadow Minister (Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs)

Yes, the socialist.

It is not just a question of bilateral relationships. Through our membership of the European Union and NATO, we have the opportunity to strengthen multilateral relations between Europe and Saudi Arabia. I hope that the Minister will say a little about the state of the EU's negotiations on a free trade agreement with Saudi Arabia and the other countries in the region and on the development of the strategic partnership between the EU and the Gulf Co-operation Council. The development of those twin initiatives would be an important way of strengthening long-term relations, at a time when, for reasons that we all understand—in particular, owing to events in Iraq in recent years—there is tension and suspicion between people and countries in western Europe and those in the Muslim and, particularly, Arab world.

I also hope that the Minister will say something about NATO's Istanbul initiative, to which a number of countries in the Gulf region have signed up already. It would be to our advantage, and that of the EU, if Saudi Arabia were to participate as well. What are the latest developments on that front?

I shall mention briefly the relationship between Britain and Saudi Arabia on three international issues: the Israel-Palestine conflict, Iraq and our broader efforts against terrorism. I voice, at least in passing, my agreement with some of the comments of Mark Hunter about human rights. Although we should continue to work for close and friendly relations with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, British Ministers should not be precluded from raising, with their Saudi counterparts, concerns about human rights. In particular, I am talking about complaints, sometimes from British residents in Saudi Arabia, about legal processes, allegations of torture and, as my hon. Friend Mark Pritchard mentioned in an intervention, the legal discrimination against minority religions.

I understand the point that Jim Sheridan made about our country's record; we can look back to the legacy of the penal laws, Test Acts and so on. I also acknowledge the unique sensitivity of Saudi Arabia as the "Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques", but nevertheless, it is quite fair that the debate about religious freedom and minorities should be on the agenda in an exchange on human rights concerns.

Photo of Daniel Kawczynski Daniel Kawczynski Conservative, Shrewsbury and Atcham

Does my hon. Friend agree that although some countries are making progress on their human rights record, others are actually getting worse? I would cite Burma—Myanmar—as an example of where human rights are getting significantly worse, whereas I would argue that Saudi Arabia is starting to improve its record. It is looking at these issues seriously and is starting to make improvements.

Photo of David Lidington David Lidington Shadow Minister (Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs)

My hon. Friend's point reinforces the need for extensive contact and co-operation between the United Kingdom and Saudi Arabia across a wide range of institutions and covering many different areas of policy, because it is through those relationships that we start to understand each other's particular political and legal traditions. That will also allow for an exchange of ideas that, I hope, will be fruitful in encouraging developments of the sort to which he referred.

Photo of Jim Sheridan Jim Sheridan Labour, Paisley and Renfrewshire North

On human rights, the hon. Gentleman need look no further than Turkey, which is being encouraged to join the European Union. Saudi Arabia is a young country whose young people need to be encouraged to make changes. It is not for us to impose change or our values on them, but to encourage and assist those with an appetite for change.

Photo of David Lidington David Lidington Shadow Minister (Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs)

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point: it is important that human rights are implemented in a way that allows people in a particular country to understand that it is a process of which they have ownership, and not a political model being imposed on them from outside.

I shall turn to the Israel-Palestine issue and take up the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham about the Arab peace plan, of which Saudi Arabia can be considered, fairly, to be the author. It is worth saying also that Saudi Arabia was instrumental in bringing about what turned out to be a short-lived Palestinian Government of national unity and in securing an agreement, earlier in the year, between Fatah and Hamas.

I would be interested to hear the Government's current assessment of the Arab peace initiative, whether Britain is seeking to encourage further direct dialogue between Israel and the Arab nations and, in particular, whether the Government hope that Saudi Arabia would be included in such discussions. Furthermore, do Ministers envisage a role for Saudi Arabia in trying to re-establish some kind of stability in the Palestinian Administration? For example, does the Minister think that the Saudis might be in a position to persuade the leadership of Hamas to accept the conditions laid down by the Quartet, on behalf of the international community, for direct involvement in the peace process?

The Opposition welcome very much President Bush's recent announcement of an international conference on the middle east peace process to be held in the autumn. It is very important that such a conference involves Saudi Arabia and other countries in the region. The more that the regional partners feel that they have a role in shaping this process, the greater the likelihood is that the bitter mistrust that currently exists can be overcome. Have the Government had any indications from Riyadh that Saudi Arabia, in principle, would be willing to attend the conference that the United States plans to convene?

On Iraq, the Baker-Hamilton report concluded that Saudi Arabia was capable of playing a key role in reconciling differences between the various Iraqi factions and in building broader support within the Islamic world for stabilisation in Iraq. However, does the current arrangement for meetings of Iraq's neighbouring countries provide an adequate forum for such influence to be exerted? I noted with interest some press reports from Washington in the last week that the US Administration might be trying to find a way in which to institutionalise to a greater extent such meetings of Iraq's neighbours. Would the British Government support such a move and do we need perhaps to have some kind of international contact group bringing together the key regional players with members of the United Nations Security Council?

As my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham pointed out, on counter-terrorism, there is no doubt that Saudi Arabia has suffered grievously from terrorist attacks. The attacks on British residents and British visitors to Saudi Arabia attract the headlines in Britain, but many families in Saudi Arabia have lost relatives and friends and been put in fear as a consequence of terrorism. I will therefore strongly support any move that the Government make to strengthen co-operation between the two Governments, which is an essential part of a successful struggle against international terrorism.

Questions need to be asked, however. There are reports that a large proportion of the foreign militants who are targeting coalition troops and Iraqi civilians and security forces in Iraq have come over the border from Saudi Arabia. Anyone who looks at a map will know that that border is not easy to police, but are the Government confident that the Saudi Government are taking all the measures that they can to prevent infiltration across Saudi Arabia's borders into Iraq?

Photo of Mark Pritchard Mark Pritchard Conservative, The Wrekin

Does my hon. Friend agree that this would be an opportune moment for the Government to state on the record whether British troops have interdicted Saudi nationals in Iraq and whether they have been detained and/or returned to Saudi Arabia?

Photo of David Lidington David Lidington Shadow Minister (Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs)

It would be helpful to have that information, and the Minister will have heard my hon. Friend's comments.

We hope and pray that there will be no further terrorist attack in Saudi Arabia, but clearly the risk still exists. Does the Minister believe that adequate contingency plans are in place in case of a major terrorist attack on British people and British interests in Saudi Arabia? In particular, is he confident that our embassy in Riyadh has the plans and the resources to be able to cope in such circumstances?

Deepening our links with the many friendly Muslim nations of the Gulf should be one of the prime goals of British foreign policy. Those countries—pre-eminently, Saudi Arabia—are vital interlocutors for anyone who wishes to understand what is happening in the region and they are, in many cases, important allies whose alliance with the United Kingdom goes back over a great many years. Above all, the long-term friendship of their Governments and peoples is essential to ensuring an international understanding that although we are committed to a struggle against international terrorism, we have no wish at all to embark on a clash of civilisations. We need a strengthening partnership between Britain, its western partners and Saudi Arabia and the other nations of the peninsula and the Gulf region. That is very much in our national interest.

Photo of Jim Murphy Jim Murphy Minister of State (Europe) 12:13, 24 July 2007

I am delighted to serve under your chairmanship, Mr. Hood, and I thank Miss Begg for her earlier oversight of our proceedings.

I congratulate Daniel Kawczynski on securing this important debate. I am delighted to make a guest appearance in a discussion of this area of the world. That does not reflect any ambitions for Saudi membership of the EU; it simply reflects the fact that my hon. Friend the Minister for the Middle East is in the middle east. I respond to the deliberations today as a guest—as the Minister for Europe.

I also congratulate the hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham on the way in which he conveyed his argument. I think that I am joined in that by hon. Members on both sides of the Chamber. His in-depth understanding of and passion for Saudi Arabia were clear to all who listened. Although hon. Members made it clear that there were specific areas of disagreement with his observations, it was clear that he had a real understanding of and passion for that country.

The hon. Gentleman's comments were amplified by those of my hon. Friend Jim Sheridan, who is the chair of the all-party group on Saudi Arabia. We had the opportunity—it was indeed an opportunity—to listen to his reflections on the challenges facing Saudi Arabia and his assessment of our bilateral relationship. I will respond, in the time available, to the plethora of specific questions that were asked and observations that were made once I have set out some of the specifics of the important UK-Saudi bilateral relations.

I am pleased—this is not just at the instigation of hon. Members on both sides of the Chamber—to announce today that Her Majesty the Queen has invited His Majesty King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz al-Saud of Saudi Arabia, custodian of the two holy mosques, to pay a state visit to the United Kingdom from 30 October to 1 November 2007. The visit will further strengthen the good relations that exist between the United Kingdom and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

I want at the outset to outline why the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is such an important ally for the United Kingdom. We have a long history of friendship, understanding and co-operation. Saudi Arabia is an important partner in the region. That co-operation covers bilateral, regional and international issues, including counter-terrorism, energy security, trade and investment, economic reform, Iraq, Iran, the middle east peace process and Lebanon. Our relationship is broadly based and vital to UK interests, and helps us to make progress on our international objectives.

One of the most important of those objectives, which was raised by the hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham, by my hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire, North and by Mr. Lidington, concerns the middle east peace process. The UK's clear view is that the Arab world has a key role to play in encouraging progress in the middle east peace process by supporting the efforts of President Abbas, by taking forward the Arab peace initiative and by helping to ensure international support and co-operation in respect of that initiative.

The Arab peace initiative is based on King Abdullah's proposal and was put forward by the Arab League in 2002, as the hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham said. It was then re-endorsed at the Arab League summit in Riyadh in March this year. The action following the Riyadh summit has been positive. The Arab League representatives are due to travel to Israel shortly to continue their work. That picks up on the question raised by the hon. Member for Aylesbury. King Abdullah also brokered the Mecca agreement in February 2007, which helped to lead to the formation of a Palestinian national unity Government.

Of course Saudi Arabia has a continuing role now and in the future in respect of the middle east peace process, primarily through the Arab League, but it would help if others in the region, particularly Iran, which is not a member of the Arab League, were able to show that there is willingness on all sides to reach consensus. It is unhelpful that the Iranian leadership continues, to all intents and purposes, to call for the active destruction of the state of Israel, continues denial of the holocaust and continues what can only be interpreted as a misguided approach to a nuclear programme. Therefore, although it is right that the Arab League continues to engage in trying to make progress, it is fair to acknowledge the challenge that Israel faces in trying to find concerted, consistent, universal partners in the peace process in that region.

Saudi Arabia shares our concerns about Iran's nuclear programme. Saudi Arabia, like us, has been working to implement the sanctions in UN Security Council resolutions 1737 and 1747 and has been supportive of the sanctions process. If Iran continues to fail to suspend its enrichment programme, we will seek a further resolution, and we look forward to Saudi Arabia's continuing support in that international endeavour.

On the specific issue of Iraq, Saudi Arabia supports the political process and has used its influence with Iraqi Sunnis to persuade them to engage in the political process. It has a critical role to play in supporting Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki's broad-based Government, including through the international compact and the provision of border security. The Saudis fully recognise that the success of the revised Baghdad security plan is critical to the future stability of not only Iraq but the whole region. In response to the specific point raised by the hon. Member for Aylesbury, let me say that the Saudis are always looking at ways to stop terrorists carrying out cross-border terrorism between Saudi Arabia and Iraq, and there are also new laws on the funding of groups. We continue to work with the Saudis on such important security issues.

Elsewhere in the region, the Saudis are playing an enhanced role. They are actively involved in efforts to resolve the political crisis in Lebanon, and we have welcomed their constructive efforts, which have sought to bring the parties in Lebanon together. Since last year's conflict, they have been a major donor in Lebanon's reconstruction process and they pledged more than $1 billion in loans and grants at the Paris conference on Lebanon. Furthermore, they contributed $1 billion at the Yemen donor conference, which the UK hosted in November 2006.

As hon. Members on both sides have recognised, Saudi Arabia is one of the UK's key counter-terrorism partners, and we maintain a high level of bilateral co-operation. Saudi Arabia plays a pivotal role, both regionally and internationally, in the global response to the terrorist threat, including in countering extremism and disrupting terrorist networks on its own territory.

Hon. Members have, fairly, commented on the political process and reform in Saudi Arabia. While remaining sensitive to the conservative majority's views, King Abdullah has introduced significant incremental reforms in recent years. They include strengthening the Shura council, holding partial—only partial—municipal elections, establishing a number of civil society organisations and promoting women's participation in elections to professional bodies and educational reform.

I heard the point about religious freedom, which was raised by Mark Pritchard, as well as a number of additional points. The annual UK/Saudi "Two Kingdoms" conference provides a bilateral framework for frank and honest dialogue on issues such as economic reform, education, the role of women, civil society and human rights in Saudi Arabia. We continue to support reform in Saudi Arabia by providing funding for specific projects, such as capacity-building for civil society organisations, helping the Ministry of Education and the vocational training agency to strengthen their English language training and encouraging young entrepreneurs.

Saudi Arabia's human rights record remains poor. Although the pace of reform is slow by western standards, the authorities have to balance their wish for faster reform against the wishes of a deeply conservative majority, many of whose members appear to oppose any reform in principle.

Photo of Jim Sheridan Jim Sheridan Labour, Paisley and Renfrewshire North

Does the Minister agree that reform in Saudi Arabia can go only at the pace that Saudi Arabia wants it to and that it is our job to encourage reform? However, on the issue of women, will the Minister tell the Saudi Government that women have, with the exception of Mrs. Thatcher, played a positive role in this country and, in particular, in Parliament?

Photo of Jim Murphy Jim Murphy Minister of State (Europe)

I wonder whether that intervention was prepared when Miss Begg was overseeing our proceedings earlier. Thus far, she has been the only woman to participate in our debate, although I am, of course, delighted that my hon. Friends the Members for Crewe and Nantwich (Mrs. Dunwoody) and for North Ayrshire and Arran (Ms Clark) are with us.

If colleagues will allow me, I will make a couple of points about our bilateral trade relationship with Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia remains the UK's largest trade and investment partner in the middle east and accounts for 25 per cent. of the Arab world's GDP, which is more than the other five Gulf Co-operation Council countries and Egypt combined. On the point about an EU trade agreement, conversations continue, and further meetings are planned for October. We would hope to make quick progress on the issue.

Today, the UK's trade and investment links with Saudi Arabia are stronger than ever and they are growing. Over the past few months, the importance of that relationship has been clearly demonstrated at Government level by a number of high-level visits. Those include visits by the Duke of York, in his role as special representative for trade and investment, and by UK Trade and Investment's chief executive, Andrew Cahn. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor also visited Saudi Arabia in May, in his role as the then Secretary of State for Trade and Industry.

Let me respond now to the points raised by Mark Hunter. In the short time available, I do not intend to rehearse the debate that we had on the Floor of the House, and nor do I wish to add to the detailed responses that the Solicitor-General and the Minister for the Middle East offered on specific points. However, I do want to say on the record once again that the Serious Fraud Office's decision was taken by the director alone. The Government have given good reason to believe that there is a real danger to our co-operation with a country that is vital to us, and I do not use the word "vital" lightly in describing the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia's importance to us. It would have been wholly irresponsible of us to ignore that information and wholly wrong not to make the SFO aware of it. The SFO made a decision based on that evidence, and, on balance, we believe that it was the right decision. We are also confident that it is compatible with the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development convention.

The hon. Gentleman reflected his constituency interest in an observation about BAE's good name, but let me gently tell him that the tone of some of his hon. Friends' comments in recent weeks—it was perhaps unintentional—does not do an awful lot to enhance the well-deserved good name of BAE in this country and internationally.

Photo of Daniel Kawczynski Daniel Kawczynski Conservative, Shrewsbury and Atcham

Does the Minister agree that the Liberal Democrats can make such comments knowing full well that they will never be in government, whereas he, being in government, must be far more aware of the sensitivities on these issues?

Photo of Jim Murphy Jim Murphy Minister of State (Europe)

Of course. An expectation of permanent opposition brings one to easy judgments and cheap soundbites, although I have no idea whether that was at play in the Liberal Democrats' positioning on this important issue.

Photo of Jim Murphy Jim Murphy Minister of State (Europe)

As long as there are no cheap soundbites.

Photo of Mark Hunter Mark Hunter Shadow Minister (Home Affairs)

Far be it from me to make cheap comments in this important debate. I have listened carefully to the Minister, but will he say on the record whether he agrees that no individual, company or country should be above the law?

Photo of Jim Murphy Jim Murphy Minister of State (Europe)

I have already said very clearly that the decision that was taken was compatible with the OECD convention and I have no intention of re-running the debate that we recently had on the Floor of the House for a number of hours. I think that hon. Members would thank us for not doing so.

Our bilateral trade with Saudi Arabia is on the up. UK exports of goods and services to the kingdom were worth more than £3 billion in 2006. The UK is also a major investor in the kingdom, and there are more than 150 UK/Saudi joint ventures, with total investments of about $14.5 billion. The amounts earmarked for investment over the present period are staggering. Investment of an estimated $630 billion in Government projects and more than $800 billion in private sector projects is planned over the next 20 years.

Our relationship with Saudi Arabia is important and strategic, and I thank the hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham for giving us all the opportunity to rehearse just how important it is to the UK diplomatically and internationally in terms of trade, the economy and jobs.