The three speeches/headings immediately before

1. 1 earlier: Paul Holmes

   The right hon. Member for Leicester, East (Keith Vaz), the Chairman of the Home Affairs Committee, observed that it was good to see constructive engagement between Government and Opposition. Over the past year I have probably seen more give and take, with the Government listening to suggestions and adopting them, than I have seen in the case of most other Bills with which I have been involved during my eight years in the House. Inevitably, many of our proposals in Committee last February were turned down, but, as is so often the case, were then accepted in the other place. There has been more acceptance of Opposition points made today during what has been a constructive debate, despite the interventions of the right hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr. MacShane), who, unfortunately, is no longer present.

   Lords amendment 25 will remove the provision that increases the maximum fine for drinking in a public place from £500 to £2,500. As a number of hon. Members have pointed out, and as I pointed out in Committee in February, that is fairly pointless. Given that the maximum £500 penalty has never been imposed, what is the point of increasing it by 500 per cent.? Making criminal policy by means of macho newspaper headlines is rather counter-productive. It was a welcome step forward that the Government accepted that and dropped the proposal.

   Amendments 26 and 27 deal with under-16s found drinking in a public place. Initially, the legislation said that they could be dispersed. It is good that the Government accept the amendments, which say that in such circumstances a police constable should not just disperse children under 16, but should look to take them to their residence or some other place of safety.

2. 2 earlier: Michael Penning

   I agree with all that has been said by hon. Members on both sides of the House. Alcohol is a major problem in this country, particularly among our young people. Fifty per cent. of crime is linked to alcohol abuse. It also affects public health. We discussed that when we debated the Health Bill, and I have raised it in the House on several occasions.

   I am keen for the legislation to be beefed up, but what worried me during our proceedings on the Health Bill was the statement by the Minister of State, Department of Health, the hon. Member for Lincoln (Gillian Merron) that the proxy purchase legislation was not enforceable. We were trying to introduce a similar law relating to the proxy purchase of cigarettes, and when I raised the issue in Committee, and again on Report, the Minister responded by saying that it was not enforceable. However, legislation on proxy purchase is on the statute book today.

   It is important for us not only to restrict young people's ability to purchase alcohol in licensed premises, but to ensure that no one who is of age can do so either as a friend or for profit. If the Minister cannot respond fully today, I ask him to think about the issue. It strikes me as ludicrous that we have proxy purchase legislation on the statute book when a Minister from another Department has said that such legislation is not enforceable. We are rightly beefing up this legislation today, but we ought to beef up the provisions that would prevent young people from gaining access to alcohol because someone who looks 18, or has proved himself to be 18, has proxy-purchased it for them.

3. 3 earlier: Keith Vaz

   It is most pleasing to see Government and Opposition working together to try to strengthen proposed legislation before it becomes law, rather than passing legislation before reflecting on it and wanting to change some of it, which is what we have done over the past 10 years in respect of the so-called 24-hour drinking culture.

   I commend the hon. Member for Hornchurch (James Brokenshire) on what he said about alcohol abuse. The Government have rightly ensured that penalties will be tougher and that there will be stronger provisions to deal with alcohol abuse, which remains a key issue for local communities. As he told us, 50 per cent. of crime in this country is in some way alcohol-related. Any hon. Member who represents a town or city will be aware of the disorder that occurs on Friday and Saturday nights as a result of alcohol abuse, for it is there for all to see.

   Police budgets are relevant to the problem. The Minister for Policing, Crime and Counter-Terrorism, who is on the Front Bench today, will appear before the Home Affairs Committee to talk about police numbers on, I believe, 24 November. If we are to ensure that resources are properly directed so that the police can do their job, we must also ensure that we do not put in the way obstacles such as the availability of alcohol. So much police time is taken up by dealing with violence in city centres on Friday and Saturday evenings.

   I welcome what the Government have done in the amendments. I think that the toughening of the penalties is extremely appropriate. I also welcome what the Opposition have done. I have only one caveat. The Select Committee has consistently pressed the Government on the issue of a floor price for alcohol, which we believe would deal with the problem of the availability of cheap alcohol in supermarkets. There is no point in tabling amendments, proposing legislation affecting licensed premises and urging local authorities to act in a particular way when supermarkets are allowed to sell alcohol as a loss leader. People are pre-loaded—tanked up—before they go out on Friday and Saturday nights, and everything that follows is due to their ability to buy cheap alcohol at supermarkets.

   Of course we welcome what the Government are doing. It is right for them to be tough in this area of policy, and it is right that the Opposition should be with them on that. I must say to them, however, that there are ways in which we can move forward. We can reduce the cost of policing, and we can ensure that local communities can have a peaceful time at weekends.