Results 121–140 of 12904 for speaker:Kevan Jones

Public Bill Committee: Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords]: Clause 15 - Internet connection records ( 7 Mar 2024)

Kevan Jones: In the example the Minister gives, at the same time the agency targets that individual, it will have a lot of other people who communicated with that individual. How long will that information be kept? That is the concern people have. It is not the depth, but this is broad. Most of those people would be completely innocent of anything. There is then the issue of how long that information is...

Public Bill Committee: Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords]: Clause 15 - Internet connection records ( 7 Mar 2024)

Kevan Jones: Let me go back to the Trainline example. Suppose it is not child exploitation—the Minister is possibly right that it is specific, and hopefully there are not many people in one street—and someone is trying to look for a person’s travel plans, so they want to know how many people in an area have contacted Trainline. It will be more than one person, so there will be a lot of other people...

Public Bill Committee: Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords]: Clause 15 - Internet connection records ( 7 Mar 2024)

Kevan Jones: Well, that would be fine if the Government did not redact things in IPCO reports and try to stop us getting access to—[Interruption.] I am sorry, but the Government are doing that. They have done it over the past few years. That is the problem. The Government are paying lip service to the ISC. We are not trying to thwart the work of our security services; we are an important part of the...

Public Bill Committee: Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords]: Clause 15 - Internet connection records ( 7 Mar 2024)

Kevan Jones: Or we could have what was suggested earlier: when the power is used, that is reported to the Investigatory Powers Commissioner, so that it is aware of what is going on and can do something if it has concerns. At the moment, it is presented with a haystack and has to look for the needle.

Public Bill Committee: Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords]: Clause 15 - Internet connection records ( 7 Mar 2024)

Kevan Jones: I accept that and I have confidence in the internal protocols—do not get me wrong on that—but the Minister does not have to convince me or members of this Committee; it is about the public perception. What is the problem? If we are not going to have judicial oversight in terms of judicial authorisation, what is to stop us having another system whereby, when it is used, the IPC is...

Public Bill Committee: Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords]: Clause 15 - Internet connection records ( 7 Mar 2024)

Kevan Jones: It is not about a fishing expedition, but they will get into a fishing expedition anyway. He says that train lines would not be affected, but they would. If someone wants to see an individual’s travel pattern, that is what they may do. Therefore, a lot of people’s data will be dragged in, not because it has been looked for but because it will come in anyway. The problem is that if the...

Public Bill Committee: Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords]: Clause 15 - Internet connection records ( 7 Mar 2024)

Kevan Jones: I agree with the hon. Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East, and the ISC feels strongly on this issue. We are clearly speaking English and the Minister is speaking Japanese, because this is about understanding what is actually being given to the agencies without any judicial oversight, which is being dismissed as if these powers are no greater or more intrusive. As the...

Public Bill Committee: Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords]: Clause 12 - Offence of unlawfully obtaining communications data ( 7 Mar 2024)

Kevan Jones: This is an area that concerns me. I am quite certain the security services have protocols on how to deal with such things, but it worries me that the DWP is on that list. Having been involved in work on the Horizon Post Office scandal for many years, I know the DWP did not cover itself in glory on some of those cases. Can the Minister reassure the Committee that there are protocols governing...

Public Bill Committee: Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords]: Clause 12 - Offence of unlawfully obtaining communications data ( 7 Mar 2024)

Kevan Jones: May I suggest that the Minister does write to the Committee? I accept the safeguards in place, but for organisations other than the security services, I want to know what internal mechanisms they have to ensure that use of those powers is proportionate in terms of investigations and so on, and what training and protocols they are using. If the Minister could write to us on that, that would be...

Public Bill Committee: Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords]: Clause 12 - Offence of unlawfully obtaining communications data ( 7 Mar 2024)

Kevan Jones: I am sorry, but I do not agree with the Minister. He is giving those other public bodies additional powers, and I think it is quite reasonable for this Committee and the public to be assured of how those powers are actually going to be used. As I say, I have no problem with the security services, because I am well aware that they have very clear, strong protocols and safeguards governing the...

Public Bill Committee: Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords]: Clause 12 - Offence of unlawfully obtaining communications data ( 7 Mar 2024)

Kevan Jones: I beg to differ. In the next clause, we will come on to the breadth and depth of the new powers, but that is a different argument—I will save that until then. However, he is the Minister and, in my experience, the Minister leads the Bill. I would have thought it would be quite simple to ask those other Departments what those protocols are. If he does not ask, he does not get.

Public Bill Committee: Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords]: Clause 12 - Offence of unlawfully obtaining communications data ( 7 Mar 2024)

Kevan Jones: May I ask the Minister to look at his internal process again? We also had this problem with the National Security Bill. I do not know whether he should change the pigeon post he is using to ensure people have it. May I also point out that the ISC is not constantly in session? Therefore, if he has to send it to the ISC, we do not automatically get it until our next meeting or when we do the...

Public Bill Committee: Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords]: Clause 2 - Low or no reasonable expectation of privacy ( 7 Mar 2024)

Kevan Jones: I agree entirely with the right hon. Gentleman. If the amendment goes into the wash-up of the Bill, things like that will have to be included anyway. I do not understand why the Government are dying in a ditch on quite a small amendment that would make no practical difference at all to the operation of this Bill. There are certain people—not including the Minister, who is quite a reasonable...

Public Bill Committee: Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords]: Clause 2 - Low or no reasonable expectation of privacy ( 7 Mar 2024)

Kevan Jones: I disagree with the Minister. Yes, IPCO can look back and can go in at any time to look at things, but if it does not know where the needle in the haystack is, how is it going to actually find it in the first place? This is not an onerous proposal, and I do not understand why the Minister is resisting it, to be honest. This measure would just send another reassurance to the public that,...

Public Bill Committee: Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords]: Clause 2 - Low or no reasonable expectation of privacy ( 7 Mar 2024)

Kevan Jones: As my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley Central said, I raised the matter on Second Reading. In no way do I or other members of the ISC want to slow down the process or give more work to the hard-working men and women of our security services. However, as I understand it, the only reason put forward by the Government was that it would impair operational agility. The amendment proposes, and...

Public Bill Committee: Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords]: Clause 2 - Low or no reasonable expectation of privacy ( 7 Mar 2024)

Kevan Jones: My hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley Central has been trying to put a definition around this. That needs to happen. If it is not to be in the Bill, the Minister needs to put on the record exactly what his expectations are, because I can see this being challenged in court. Courts are very good at looking back at what is said and what is actually meant in Parliament, so it is quite important....

Public Bill Committee: Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords]: Clause 2 - Low or no reasonable expectation of privacy ( 7 Mar 2024)

Kevan Jones: I have no reasonable expectation that those posts are private. I am not suggesting that the security services will want to look at North Durham mornings, but those posts are something that I have put in the public domain. That is fine, but it is different from what the hon. Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East was talking about. We might share a photograph or information on...

Public Bill Committee: Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords]: Clause 2 - Low or no reasonable expectation of privacy ( 7 Mar 2024)

Kevan Jones: Yes. A point was also raised about leaked data. If something is leaked on the internet or any other portal and everyone has access to it, do we then assume that the security services think that it comes under “reasonable expectation”, even though the individual whose data it was perhaps did not want it out there? I accept that under proposed new section 226B(4)(b), “the authorisation is...


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