Mr Francis Pym: What an unworthy speech we have just heard. The right hon. Member for Leeds, East (Mr. Healey) fancies himself as an expert on foreign affairs, but through much of his speech he trivialised matters of the utmost concern to millions of people. He showed, if I may say so, that the time has come for him to make way for a more serious figure. One of the misfortunes of contemporary British...
Mr Francis Pym: I am speaking particularly about the changes that we see taking place in the Soviet Union. The West has an equally clear purpose. It is to prevent the spread of Communism and to convince the Third world of the superiority in every way of our system, the essence of which is the freedom of the individual. We must convince them that in our parliamentary democracies all views count. Of course,...
Mr Francis Pym: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. The Foreign Secretary is doing all that he can. However, it is a major international question. What concerned me for a long time, including when I was Foreign Secretary, was that the issue did not receive the degree of attention that it required. My final point concerns the supreme importance of keeping our electorate fully informed on...
Mr Francis Pym: Will my right hon. Friend accept that her visit to the Soviet Union and the way in which she carried it off is universally admired and approved and that, despite the grudging, indeed carping, criticisms of the Leader of the Opposition, the view of the House is that she has done our nation and the cause of peace a great service?— Can my right hon. Friend give any more information about the...
Mr Francis Pym: With due respect, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I do not think that Mr. Speaker made such an appeal. I may be wrong about that, but I naturally appreciate the point that you made. The speculation that we have suffered lately about the likelihood of an early election was certainly fanned by the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Sparkbrook (Mr. Hattersley), who led the debate for the Opposition. It was...
Mr Francis Pym: There is not the slightest doubt from the speeches that we have heard so far that the House appreciates the gravity of the issue. I see two aspects to that. The first is related to the lives of the people in South Africa, the hardships that many of them know, the privileges enjoyed by some, and the aspirations of all. It is the people who are suffering. The second aspect is the perception of...
Mr Francis Pym: The hon. Gentleman will forgive me if I do not give way. That is why the group came into existence after the Commonwealth Heads of Government conference. However, it has failed. The report clearly implies that, in its unanimous view, further measures are required. I would like to see my right hon. Friends and the British Government take a positive lead in identifying those measures. I do...
Mr Francis Pym: The Bill did not make any contribution to the large majority that my party achieved at the last general election. Indeed, no mention of it was made during the campaign and, so far as I know, little or no thought was given to the topic. The irony is that it is now evident that the Government need their large majority to get the Bill through. Tonight's motion should have been on a free vote. I...
Mr Francis Pym: I am grateful to my hon. and learned Friend; I stand corrected."The British people" is not the correct description; it would be more accurate to refer to the people of England, Wales and Northern Ireland. [Interruption.] I mean England and Wales. It is hard to argue that the need for this change, as envisaged in the Bill, is urgent or crucial. At times Governments have to take unpopular...
Mr Francis Pym: Well, I think they are different. The free arrangement in Scotland would have a different effect in England if applied here. That point is behind the argument used by some members of the Church of Scotland for saying that they themselves dislike the passage of this Bill. Some of my right hon. and hon. Friends believe that people are deprived of some freedom because Sunday is not like any...
Mr Francis Pym: The only point that I would concede to the Opposition this afternoon is their choice of subject. Government economic policy and the level of unemployment is one of the most important issues facing our country today. I find the Opposition's attitude to unemployment acceptable in terms of their concern about the experience of it and their dislike of it, but totally unimpressive in terms of...
Mr Francis Pym: Yes, I do. It will be necessary to do that. It was easier for people to move from one area to another in the 1930s because they were able to rent a room or a flat. I accept that they could be turned out very quickly., but there was scope to move that does not exist now, Another part of the problem that must be considered is the cost of moving and the difficulty that people have in meeting it....
Mr Francis Pym: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his intervention. He has corrected me, and quite rightly. The point is that no one is thinking of these problems nationally. I accept that there is concern regionally, but there is no collecting of views and no co-ordinating of them. There is no input from the centre as far as I can see. The fourth element is a larger programme of public works than we...
Mr Francis Pym: My hon. Friend may disagree with me about that and may consider that any public investment is not right. I do not share that view. I think that there is scope for the development of both private and public sectors. The four elements of the strategy that I submitted to the House would have, in my view, a valuable effect on unemployment in the short term, although I would not exaggerate it,...
Mr Francis Pym: It is precisely that absurdity that it is so important to end. I put forward my views to the House on another occasion about how that might be achieved. The ending of the poverty trap and, so far as is possible, the prevention of poverty are essential ingredients in any strategy to deal with unemployment. There is also the important question of the distribution of employment. The Government...
Mr Francis Pym: I shall be voting in support of my Government. I am urging my right hon. Friends to go a great deal further than they have gone so far. The Opposition have suggested nothing for which anybody could conceivably vote. This strategy would cost money. I said on an earlier occasion in this House that it should be paid for out of the proceeds of privatisation. To use those proceeds in this way...
Mr Francis Pym: I hope that my hon. Friend will forgive me if I do not do so. I have come almost to the end of my speech. However, it is right—and I hope that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer will do this—to adjust tax allowances and to raise tax thresholds so that at the lower end of the scale some benefit is achieved. I apologise for keeping the House for so long. I regard the...
Mr Francis Pym: That is only one possibility. There must be alternatives. To say that there is no way forward is possibly an error. We must find a way that will help create that broad sense of agreement which is a fundamental necessity from the point of view of our nation and for the recipients of the benefits we are trying to provide.
Mr Francis Pym: It seems clear from the speech of the hon. Member for Oldham, West (Mr. Meacher) that the Bill will generate a great deal of controversy. It certainly includes a great deal of detail on social security and therefore the Committee stage will be extremely important. I had the impression, listening to the two opening speeches, that this Bill is an ideal example of one on which a timetable at the...
Mr Francis Pym: I think that all right hon. and hon. Members agree that the complexity of this subject, especially the method of distribution of grant, is such as to make it almost incomprehensible. It feels like a machine that is out of control. It is reminiscent, I find, of Charlie Chaplin in "Modern Times". I rather wish that he had been spared to make a similar film about computers. Any system that is so...