Mr Oliver Crosthwaite-Eyre: I find it difficult to follow the Minister. If he is genuine in the assurance that he has given, he has all the powers under the New Forest Act, 1949. Clause 18 (1) (c) reads: with the agreement of the verderers authorise the use of land in the Forest for the purpose of recreation and the erection on such land of buildings or other works for that purpose and the enclosure of such land in so...
Mr Oliver Crosthwaite-Eyre: On a point of order. Is it in order for the hon. Member to say that there are public relations officers on this side of the House well paid for what they are doing?
Mr Oliver Crosthwaite-Eyre: Listening to the hon. Member for Ebbw Vale (Mr. Michael Foot), one got the impression that this was a great moral issue. Reference has been made to the resolution of the Security Council, which has also been before the General Assembly. I want to know how many countries have ratified that resolution. To my knowledge only four countries have done so. What is even more startling perhaps, none...
Mr Oliver Crosthwaite-Eyre: Let us take it further. Is it not a fact that at present the two States that are trying to come to terms in regard to mutual realisation and mutual respect with Southern Rhodesia are Zambia and Malawi? Is it not a fact that 250,000 people from Malawi are working in Southern Rhodesia, and that if there was any implementation of the Security Council resolution they would be unemployed and shot...
Mr Oliver Crosthwaite-Eyre: I have declared my interest before, and will declare it again. Most of my family live out there, but as an individual I have no financial interests there whatsoever. [HON. MEMBERS: "Withdraw."] I hope that I have made my first point.
Mr Oliver Crosthwaite-Eyre: I will, if I may, come now to the Order itself. I wish particularly to draw attention to Article 10(5), where it says: Proceedings for an offence against this Order shall not be instituted except by, or with the consent of, the Treasury or the Board of Trade or, in England or Wales, the Director of Public Prosecutions… I will not bother to read the rest. I want to go back to what I asked...
Mr Oliver Crosthwaite-Eyre: In view of what was said in the opening statement on the Orders, that anybody, be he a British subject resident or non-resident, would be subject to penalty under this, how does the right hon. and learned Gentleman exempt Government organisations from this? Would he also answer my other question, which is my most important one? How does he exempt from the Order asbestos coming to this country...
Mr Oliver Crosthwaite-Eyre: rose
Mr Oliver Crosthwaite-Eyre: rose—
Mr Oliver Crosthwaite-Eyre: After the peroration of the right hon. Member for Leyton (Mr. Gordon Walker), it is difficult to come in at the same level and tempo. I do not think that the right hon. Gentleman was fair in a number of the things which he said. He said, for instance, that if Members went into the Lobby against the Government they would be rebels and that they could be accused, as was done by the Government...
Mr Oliver Crosthwaite-Eyre: I have a note of it with me and I propose to say it. At the moment, I am speaking purely about sanctions. They have never worked and they never will work. As hon. Members probably know, I have been out to Rhodesia every year. To have sanctions that work we have to be certain that the people with whom we combine about sanctions work with us. We talk about South Africa, for instance, and...
Mr Oliver Crosthwaite-Eyre: I have officially informed the Government and have offered to give them full details. If I may say so to the hon. Member, one never wants to disclose details of a firm or a particular deal unless the Government Department concerned wishes to have the information. I have said to the Government that if they want the information they can have it.
Mr Oliver Crosthwaite-Eyre: I agree that it is as well to make clear which side one is on. I would put it this way. May I answer without equivocation that I am with the Government who were elected in 1961. For various reasons which I will give later, I still think that by the judgment of the Chief Justice the present Government is the de facto and not the de jure Government. Nobody in this House could argue that we are...
Mr Oliver Crosthwaite-Eyre: I will come to that in a moment. I want to talk about sanctions because that is one of the things which has been quoted against me. I said, and I repeat, that I was glad that sanctions had failed. I said it in Rhodesia and I repeat it in this House, for this reason. If sanctions are ineffective, as, I think, everybody admits they are, and if consequently they are tightened up, whether by...
Mr Oliver Crosthwaite-Eyre: The curious thing is that the right hon. Gentleman had not got a copy of the transcript of that television broadcast. It was not in the Library and it was not available at the B.B.C.
Mr Oliver Crosthwaite-Eyre: It was quite impossible for the Paymaster-General to have known what I said on that occasion. The right hon. Gentleman drew the attention of the House to a certain monitored radio recording that I had made. So that the matter could be put in proper perspective, I asked him if he would put a transcript of my television broadcast in the Library. If an hon. Member is attacked as I was, it is...
Mr Oliver Crosthwaite-Eyre: I cannot.
Mr Oliver Crosthwaite-Eyre: Because there are only two people who are entitled to put anything into the Library.
Mr Oliver Crosthwaite-Eyre: I asked the right hon. Gentleman if he would do it, in view of his attack upon me. He refused. Through other sources, I asked whether it was possible for a back bencher to have a document placed in the Library, and I was told that it was not. I deeply regret that a high-ranking Minister of the Crown should have not seen fit to let the House know both sides of the case, particularly after...
Mr Oliver Crosthwaite-Eyre: I believe that the House would like me to say what the Paymaster-General thought necessary to refer to. The reference number is ME/22/88/B/5——