Public Bill Committees
Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders bill

• Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders bill, 1st sitting (12 speeches)
  [Mr Philip Hollobone in the Chair]
  • Examination of Witnesses (31 speeches)
    Vicki Helyar-Cardwell, Juliet Lyon, Frances Crook and Andrew Neilson gave evidence.
  • Examination of Witnesses (26 speeches)
    Jonathan Ledger and Steve Gillan gave evidence.
  • Examination of Witnesses (18 speeches)
    Louise Casey and Sally Gimson gave evidence.
  • Examination of Witnesses (22 speeches)
    John Fassenfelt and John Thornhill gave evidence.
• Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders bill, 2nd sitting (3 speeches)
  [Jim Sheridan in the Chair]
  • Examination of Witnesses (63 speeches)
    Linda Lee, Peter Lodder, Deborah Turner, Claire Fazan gave evidence.
  • Examination of Witness (22 speeches)
    Keir Starmer gave evidence.
  • Examination of Witnesses (27 speeches)
    Carolyn Downs gave evidence.
• Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders bill, 3rd sitting (56 speeches)
  [Jim Sheridan in the Chair] Written evidence to be reported to the House LA 15 Citizens Advice Bureau LA 16 Sheffield Law Centre LA 17 MASS (Motor Accident Solicitors Society) LA 18 Southall...
  • Examination of Witnesses (53 speeches)
    Jerry Petherick and Kate Steadman gave evidence.
• Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders bill, 4th sitting (0 speeches)
  [Mr Philip Hollobone in the Chair]
  • Examination of Witnesses (44 speeches)
    Frances Coulson, Ann Lewis, Julie Bishop, Gillian Guy and Simon Pugh gave evidence.
  • Examination of Witnesses (32 speeches)
    Rachel Robinson, Roger Smith and Steve Hynes gave evidence.
  • Examination of Witnesses (24 speeches)
    Barbara Esam, Councillor David Simmonds, Dr Maggie Atkinson and Enver Solomon gave evidence.
  • Examination of Witnesses (31 speeches)
    Nick Starling, Muiris Lyons and Catherine Hopkins gave evidence.
• Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders bill, 5th sitting (13 speeches)
  [Jim Sheridan in the Chair] Written evidence to be reported to the House LA 38 Refugee Children’s Consortium (additional) LA 39 Robert Morfee, Partner, Clarke Willmott LLP LA 40 Caroline...
  • Clause 1 - Lord Chancellor’s functions (112 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 60, in clause 1, page 1, line 6, at end insert— ‘(1A) The provision of legal aid must promote and ensure access to justice...
• Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill, 6th sitting (5 speeches)
  [Mr Philip Hollobonein the Chair]
  • Clause 1 - Lord Chancellor’s functions (138 speeches, 1 annotation)
    Amendment moved (this day): 60, in clause 1, page 1, line 6, at end insert— ‘(1A) The provision of legal aid must promote and ensure access to justice...
• Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders bill, 7th sitting (1 speech)
  [Mr Philip Hollobone in the Chair] Written evidence to be reported to the House LA 47 Association of British Insurers LA 48 Andy Brodie, Solicitor LA 49 Mayor of London LA 50 Paul Fulcher LA 51...
  • Clause 1 - Lord Chancellor’s functions (44 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 1, in clause 1, page 1, line 13, lea ve out ‘may’ and insert ‘must’.
• Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders bill, 8th sitting (0 speeches)
  [Jim Sheridan in the Chair]
  • Clause 1 - Lord Chancellor’s functions (12 speeches)
    Amendment proposed (this day): 86, in clause 1, page 2, line 7, at end add— ‘(6) The Lord Chancellor must ensure that any individual wishing to access legal aid through face to face...
  • Clause 2 - Arrangements (19 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 3, in clause 2, page 2, line 9, leav e out ‘may’ and insert ‘must’.
  • Clause 3 - Standards of service (6 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 64, in clause 3, page 2, line 31, at beginning insert— ‘(A1) In carrying out the Lord Chancellor’s functions under this...
  • Clause 4 - Director of Legal Aid Casework (12 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 8, in clause 4, page 3, line 9, at end insert— ‘(2) This position will be subject to a pre-appointment hearing by a select...
  • Clause 7 - Civil legal services (11 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 13, in clause 7, page 5, line 20, lea ve out from ‘form’ to ‘resolution’ in line 22 and insert— ‘of...
  • Clause 8 - General cases (12 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 75, in clause 8, page 5, line 27, lea ve out subsection (1).
  • Schedule 1 - Civil legal services (105 speeches)
    Amendment made: 19, page 95, line 31, leave out ‘paragraph 1’ and insert ‘sub-paragraph (1)’.—(Mr Djanogly.)
• Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders bill, 9th sitting (0 speeches)
  [Jim Sheridan in the Chair]
  • Clause 9 - Exceptional cases (50 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 22, in clause 9, page 6, line 8, leav e out ‘the individual’s rights’ and insert ‘any rights of the individual’.
• Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders bill, 10th sitting (0 speeches)
  [Mr Philip Hollobone in the Chair] Written evidence to be reported to the House LA 80 Thompsons Solicitors LA 81 Legal Aid Practitioners Group LA 82 Bar Council of England and Wales LA 83 Young...
  • Clause 9 - Exceptional cases (23 speeches)
    Amendment proposed (this day): 96, in clause 9, page 6, line 11, before ‘any’, insert ‘the interests of justice, including’.—(Mr Llwyd.)
  • Clause 10 - Qualifying for civil legal aid (13 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 24, in clause 10, page 6, line 38, le ave out ‘section’ and insert ‘paragraph’.
  • Clause 11 - Determinations (7 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 101, in clause 11, page 7, line 32, at end insert— ‘(1A) A determination that an individual does not qualify under this Part for...
  • Clause 12 - Advice and assistance for individuals in custody (31 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 102, in clause 12, page 8, line 23, le ave out from ‘premises’ to end of line 11 on page 9.
  • Clause 13 - Criminal proceedings (0 speeches)
    Amendment made: 25, in clause 13, page 9, line 40, le ave out ‘body’ and insert ‘, person’.—(Mr Djanogly.)
  • Clause 14 - Advice and assistance for criminal proceedings (7 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 106, in clause 14, page 9, line 43, le ave out ‘may’ and insert ‘must’.
  • Clause 15 - Representation for criminal proceedings (3 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 28, in clause 15, page 11, line 8, af ter ‘determined’ insert ‘(provisionally or otherwise)’.
  • Clause 16 - Qualifying for representation (7 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 119, in clause 16, page 12, line 8, le ave out from ‘determination’ to end and insert ‘the relevant authority must take...
  • Clause 17 - Determinations by Director (3 speeches)
    Amendments made: 30, in clause 17, page 13, line 19, a fter ‘court’ insert ‘, tribunal’. Amendment 31, in...
  • Clause 18 - Determinations by court (0 speeches)
    Amendments made: 33, in clause 18, page 14, line 5, af ter ‘court’ insert ‘, tribunal’. Amendment 34, in...
  • Clause 19 - Provisional determinations (0 speeches)
    Amendments made: 35, in clause 19, page 14, line 23, a fter ‘of’ insert ‘provisional’. Amendment 36, in...
  • Clause 20 - Financial resources (6 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 129, in clause 20, page 15, line 2, at beginning insert ‘subject to section 22(11A)’.
  • Clause 22 - Payment for services (4 speeches)
    I call Mr Llwyd to move amendment 131.
  • Schedule 2 - Criminal legal aid: motor vehicle orders (3 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 42, page 121, line 15, leave out ‘payable’ and insert ‘due’.
  • Clause 25 - Costs in civil proceedings (5 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 117, in clause 25, page 20, line 3, le ave out subsection (3).
  • Clause 26 - Choice of provider of services etc (4 speeches)
    Does Mr Llwyd wish to press amendments 108 and 109 to a Division? They have previously been debated.
  • Clause 27 - Position of providers of services (5 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 110, in clause 27, page 21, leave out line 39.
  • Clause 28 - Code of conduct (3 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 112, in clause 28, page 22, line 8, af ter ‘body’, insert ‘exercising functions of the Lord Chancellor or the Director...
  • Schedule 3 - Legal aid for legal persons (1 speech)
    Amendments made: 44, in schedule 3, page 122, line 26, leave out ‘the person’s rights’ and insert ‘any rights of the person’. Amendment...
  • Clause 31 - Foreign law (1 speech)
    Amendments made: 54, page 23, line 23, leave out ‘an individual’s rights’ and insert ‘any rights of an individual’. Amendment 55, in...
  • Schedule 5 - Consequential amendments (3 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 173, page 130, line 32, at end insert—
  • Clause 38 - Orders, regulations and directions (2 speeches)
    Amendment made: 56, in page 27, line 12, leave out ‘body’ and insert ‘person’.—(Mr Djanogly.)
  • Clause 39 - Interpretation (0 speeches)
    Amendments made: 57, in page 28, line 4, leave out ‘body’ and insert ‘person’. Amendment 58, in...
  • New Clause 2 - Alternative funding arrangements for legal aid (3 speeches)
    ‘The Lord Chancellor may by regulations make provision for alternative sources of funding to support the provision of Legal Aid.’.—(Mr Slaughter.)
  • New Clause 3 - Wasted cost orders in civil proceedings (12 speeches)
    ‘(1) Where a case is funded in accordance with section 8, the costs of and incidental to proceedings in any Courts or Tribunals listed at Schedule 1, Part 3 shall be in the discretion of...
• Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishmentof Offenders bill, 11th sitting (0 speeches)
  [Mr Philip Hollobone in the Chair]
  • Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill (0 speeches)
    LA 86 Firstassist Legal Expenses Insurance Ltd (“FLEIL”) LA 87 Liberty LA 88 Carter-Ruck Solicitors LA 89 Centre for Mental Health LA 90 JUSTICE LA 91 Hugh James Solicitors LA 92...
  • Clause 41 - Conditional fee agreements: success fees (81 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 192, in clause 41, page 29, line 21, a t end insert— ‘(2A) After subsection (7) of that section insert— (8) The Lord...
• Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders bill, 12th sitting (0 speeches)
  [Jim Sheridan in the Chair]
  • Clause 41 - Conditional fee agreements: success fees (43 speeches)
    Amendment moved (this day): 196, in clause 41, page 29, line 21, at end insert— ‘(2A) The amendments made by subsections (2) and (4) do not apply in relation to...
  • Clause 42 (7 speeches)
    Damages-based agreements
  • Clause 44 - Recovery where body undertakes to meet costs liabilities (1 speech)
    Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
  • Schedule 6 - Costs in criminal cases (5 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 116, in schedule 6, page 142, line 18, leave out from ‘proceedings’ to ‘under’ and insert ‘in the Crown court including...
  • Schedule 7 - Costs in criminal cases: service courts (1 speech)
    I beg to move amendment 59, in schedule 7, page 153, line 36, leave out ‘33B’ and insert ‘33B(1)(d)’. This technical amendment corrects a reference to...
• Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders bill, 13th sitting (0 speeches)
  [Jim Sheridan in the Chair] Written evidence to be reported to the House LA 93 The Association of British Insurers LA95 Consortium of Expert Witnesses to the Family Courts LA96 The Law Society
  • Clause 53 - Court’s duty to consider compensation order (43 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 296, in clause 53, page 38, line 34, a t end insert— ‘(2AA) A court must consider making an order to participate in a restorative...
• Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders bill, 14th sitting (0 speeches)
  [Mr Philip Hollobone in the Chair]
  • Clause 54 - Duty to give reasons for and to explain effect of sentence (60 speeches, 1 annotation)
    I beg to move amendment 298, page 39, line 6, leave out ‘and (3)’ and insert ‘, (3) and (4).’.
  • Clause 56 - Breach of community order (20 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 303, in clause 56, page 42, line 7, le ave out paragraph (b).
  • Clause 57 - Changes to powers to make suspended sentence order (48 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 305, in clause 57, page 43, line 3, le ave out ‘2 years’ and insert ‘12 months’.
  • Schedule 8 - Changes to powers to make suspended sentence orders: consequential and transitory provision (0 speeches)
    Amendment made: 248, in schedule 8, page 160, line 14, at end insert—
  • Clause 58 - Fine for Breach of Suspended Sentence Order (2 speeches)
    Amendment made: 249, in clause 58, page 44, line 3, af ter ‘£2,500,”,’ insert— ‘after sub-paragraph (4) insert— (4ZA) A fine...
  • Clause 59 - Programme requirement (18 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 250, in clause 59, page 44, line 24, a t end insert— ‘( ) In section 177(2) of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 (community orders:...
  • Clause 60 - Curfew requirement (19 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 313, in clause 60, page 45, line 4, le ave out subsection (2).
  • Clause 61 - Foreign travel prohibition requirement (2 speeches)
    Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
  • Clause 62 - Mental health treatment requirement (15 speeches)
    Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
  • Clause 63 - Drug rehabilitation requirement (7 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 328, in clause 63, page 46, line 17, a t end insert— ‘(a) In section 209 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 (drug rehabilitation...
  • Clause 65 - Referral orders for young offenders (2 speeches)
    Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
  • Clause 66 - Breach of detention and training order (8 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 273, in clause 66, page 49, line 31, l eave out from ‘(5)’ to ‘House’ in line 32 and insert ‘may not be made...
  • Clause 67 - Youth rehabilitation order: curfew requirement (22 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 345, in clause 67, page 50, line 1, le ave out subsection (2).
  • Clause 68 - Youth rehabilitation order: mental health treatment requirement (3 speeches)
    Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
• Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishmentof Offenders bill, 15th sitting (6 speeches)
  [Mr Philip Hollobone in the Chair] Written evidence to be reported to the House LA 97 The Mary Ward Legal Centre LA 98 Stephensons Solicitors LLP LA 99 Carol Laidlaw and Ellen Lee LA 100 Coram...
  • Clause 69 - Youth rehabilitation order: duration (8 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 274, in clause 69, page 50, line 21, a t end insert ‘and for “3” substitute “2”.’.
  • Clause 70 - Youth rehabilitation order: fine for breach (8 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 277, in clause 70, page 52, line 26, leave out from ‘, for’ to end of line and insert ‘(i), for “14” substitute...
  • Clause 71 - Magistrates’ courts’ powers to impose imprisonment (6 speeches)
    Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
  • Clause 72 - Custody plus orders and intermittent custody orders (19 speeches)
    Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
  • Schedule 10 - Amendment of enactments relating to bail (49 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 282, page 165, line 33, leave out paragraph 3.
• Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders bill, 16th sitting (0 speeches)
  [Jim Sheridan in the Chair]
  • Clause 74 - Remands of children otherwise than on bail (3 speeches)
    I beg to move Government amendment 253, in clause 74, page 54, line 17, a t end insert— ‘( ) This section is subject to section 128(7) of the...
  • Clause 75 - Remands to local authority accommodation (3 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 367, in clause 75, page 55, line 5, le ave out subsection (6).
  • Clause 77 - Requirements for electronic monitoring (5 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 361, in clause 77, page 56, line 20, l eave out ‘twelve’ and insert ‘fourteen’.
  • Clause 80 - Liability to arrest for breaking conditions of remand (2 speeches)
    Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
  • Clause 81 - First set of conditions for a remand to youth detention accommodation (15 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 424, in clause 81, page 59, line 28, a t end insert—‘and (e) the sentencing condition (see subsection (7)).’.
  • Clause 82 - Second Set of Conditions for a remand to Youth Detention Accommodation (3 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 342, in clause 82, page 60, line 27, l eave out subsection (3).
  • Clause 85 - Remands to Youth Detention Accommodation (9 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 254, in clause 85, page 63, line 38, l eave out ‘one of the kinds of’.
  • Clause 86 - Arrangements for remands (3 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 370, in clause 86, page 65, line 1, af ter ‘in’ insert ‘— (i) section 80(1)(a) to (e) of the Criminal Justice Act...
  • Schedule 11 - Remands of children otherwise than on bail: minor and consequential amendments (3 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 256, in schedule 11, page 170, line 18, at end insert—
  • Clause 89 - Interpretation of Chapter (0 speeches)
    Amendments made: 376, in clause 89, page 66, line 12, leave out ‘to receive the child’ and insert ‘as the designated authority for the child’. Amendment 377, in clause 89,...
  • Clause 90 - Crediting of periods of remand in custody (1 speech)
    Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
  • Clause 91 - Crediting of periods of remand on bail (3 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 378, in clause 91, page 68, leave out lines 45 and 46 and insert— ‘( ) subject to any requirement imposed for the purpose of securing the...
  • Clause 92 - Amendments consequential on sections 90 and 91 (3 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 380, in clause 92, page 70, line 3, le ave out ‘“section 240 or 240A” substitute “section 240A”’ and...
  • Clause 93 - Prisoners serving less than 12 months (16 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 411, in clause 93, page 70, line 37, l eave out section (2) and insert— ‘(2) A person sentenced to more than four months but less...
  • Clause 94 - Restrictions on early release subject to curfew (2 speeches)
    Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
  • Clause 96 - Further release after recall (5 speeches)
    Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
  • Clause 97 - Supervision of young offenders after release (0 speeches)
    Amendment made: 385, in clause 97, page 76, leave out lines 16 to 18 and insert— “( ) In this section— “specified Class A drug” has the same...
  • Clause 98 - Miscellaneous amendments relating to release and recall (28 speeches)
    Amendment made: 386, in clause 98, page 77, line 30, a t end insert— ‘( ) In section 263(2)(b) (concurrent terms: authority to release), for...
  • Clause 100 - Removal of prisoners from the United Kingdom (13 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 415, in clause 100, page 78, line 24,  at end insert— ‘( ) The Secretary of State shall take all reasonable steps to inform the...
• Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders bill, 17th sitting (0 speeches)
  [Jim Sheridan in the Chair] Written evidence to be reported to the House LA 111 MG Law Limited LA 112 Ismail Abdulhai Bhamjee LA 113 Henry Hyams Solicitors, Leeds
  • Clause 103 - Employment in prisons: deductions etc from payments to prisoners (39 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 412, in clause 103, page 81, line 1, l eave out ‘may’ and insert ‘shall’.
  • Clause 105 - Transit of prisoners (6 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 414, in clause 105, page 85, line 38,  at end insert— (a) The Secretary of State shall not exercise his powers under sections 6A, 6B...
• Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders bill, 18th sitting (0 speeches)
  [Mr Philip Hollobone in the Chair]
  • Clause 105 - Transit of prisoners (4 speeches)
    Amendment proposed (this day): 414, in clause 105, page 85, line 38, at end insert— ‘(3) (a) The Secretary of State shall not exercise his powers under sections 6A, 6B and 6C of the...
  • Schedule 14 - Penalty notices for disorderly behaviour (27 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 426, in schedule 14, page 178, line 1, leave out subsections (4) and (5).
  • Clause 107 - Conditional cautions: involvement of prosecutors (5 speeches)
    Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
  • Clause 108 - Conditional cautions: removal etc of certain foreign offenders (3 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 428, in clause 108, page 87, line 16,  at end add— ‘(c) the Secretary of State shall make a declaration that any offender...
  • Clause 109 - Youth cautions (13 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 337, in clause 109, page 87, leave out lines 24 to 30 and insert— ‘(1) A constable may give a child or young person (“Y”) a...
  • Clause 112 - Youth conditional cautions: involvement of prosecutors (2 speeches)
    Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
  • Clause 113 - Offences of threatening with article with blade or point or offensive weapon in public or on school premises (23 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 389, in clause 113, page 90, line 33,  leave out from beginning to end of line 35.
  • Schedule 16 - Knives and offensive weapons: minor and consequential amendments (3 speeches)
    I beg to move amendment 397, in schedule 16, page 186, line 18, at end insert “only”.
  • New Clause 4 - Consequential amendments to the Armed Forces Act 2006 (1 speech)
    ‘(1) Section 182 of the Armed Forces Act 2006 (general provisions about overseas community orders) is amended as follows. (2) In subsection (1)(a) (requirements that may be imposed by...
  • New Clause 15 - Causing serious injury by dangerous driving (9 speeches)
    ‘(1) The Road Traffic Act 1988 is amended as follows. (2) After section 1 insert— “1A Causing serious injury by dangerous driving (1) A person who causes serious injury to...
  • New Clause 6 - Maximum and minimum sentences (3 speeches)
    ‘(1) When sentencing a person to serve a sentence of imprisonment for a determinate term the court shall state the maximum time that shall be served. (2) When sentencing a person to serve a...
  • New Clause 10 - Sentencing law relating to extended supervision (7 speeches)
    ‘(1) The Criminal Justice Act 2003 is amended as follows. (2) After section 227 (2)(b) insert— “(c) In determining whether to impose extended supervision a court shall have...
  • New Clause 11 - Sentencing law relating to early release of those serving determinate sentences (9 speeches)
    ‘(1) The Criminal Justice Act 2003 is amended as follows. (2) After section 227 (2)(b) insert— “(e) Before releasing a person sentenced to a period of imprisonment of four years...
  • New Schedule 1 - Causing serious injury by dangerous driving (0 speeches)
    Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) 1 In section 13A(1) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (disapplication of sections 1 to 3 for authorised motoring events) after “sections 1,” insert...
  • New Schedule 2 - Crediting of time in custody: Armed Forces amendments (0 speeches)
    1 The Armed Forces Act 2006 is amended as follows. 2 In section 246 (crediting of time in service custody: terms of imprisonment and detention), for subsections (2) to (5) substitute—...
  • Clause 114 - Power to make consequential and supplementary provision etc (0 speeches)
    Amendment made: 405, in clause 114, page 92, line 28, leave out subsection (3).—(Mr Blunt.)
  • Clause 117 - Extent (8 speeches)
    Amendments made: 406, in clause 117, page 93, line 23, leave out ‘(2)’ and insert ‘(1A)’. Amendment 407, in...