Julia Goldsworthy (Falmouth & Camborne, Liberal Democrat)

I beg to move amendment 48, in clause 19, page 12, line 29, leave out subsection (1).

David Amess (Southend West, Conservative)

With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment 50, in clause 19, page 13, line 1, leave out subsection (6).

Julia Goldsworthy (Falmouth & Camborne, Liberal Democrat)

I do not propose to detain the Committee for long. The amendment repeats a point that has been made many times already. Earlier in this chapter, there were discussions about how councils could formulate their own policy on responding to petitions. However, clause 19 then basically says that the Secretary of State can do whatever he or she likes anyway and that the Government can impose whatever schemes they like.

The amendments would withdraw the provisions in the clause that allow the Secretary of State to do whatever he or she likes. Subsection (1) allows the appropriate national authority to make provisions as to what a petition scheme must or must not contain, which seems exactly the opposite of what the Minister says the Bill is intended to achieve, because it involves central diktats. Subsection (6) states:

“The appropriate national authority may direct a principal local authority to make such revisions to its petition scheme as may be specified in the direction”,

and so on.

Other aspects of the clause are quite helpful. I do not see any problem with providing a model petition scheme to make it easier for local authorities to decide what they wish to take up, and I do not see any reason why local authorities should not be provided with guidance, but I see no reason why any national body should seek to dictate exactly how any local authority should respond to a petition. For that reason, I commend the amendments to the Committee.

Rosie Winterton (Minister of State (Pensions Reform; Minister for Yorkshire and Humber), Department for Work and Pensions; Doncaster Central, Labour)

There are two principles here. We want to ensure that if it is necessary to intervene in particular circumstances—in extremis—that will happen. I assure the Committee and particularly the hon. Lady that we do not intend to use the power unless very particular problems occur. Obviously, all these issues would be discussed with local authorities before any intervention.

With regard to amendment 50, it is important that we recognise that legislation is not always a precise science. Some things are much too detailed to put in the Bill and it is important that we have secondary legislation to assist us. So I hope that, in these circumstances, the hon. Lady will withdraw her amendment.

Julia Goldsworthy (Falmouth & Camborne, Liberal Democrat)

I am afraid that I will have to disappoint the Minister. These aspects of the clause seem to assume the worst of all local authorities and the best of central Government, which is a very dangerous assumption to make.

Stewart Jackson (Shadow Minister, Communities and Local Government; Peterborough, Conservative)

We can call this the BAA amendment. Let us imagine that it was in place in a Bill when we were considering public consultation and petitions with regard to the third runway. For what possible reason would the Secretary of State wish to intervene in the powers and duties of a local authority to tell it how to have a petition? It seems to me that the provision is insidious and I am delighted to support the hon. Lady on this issue.

Julia Goldsworthy (Falmouth & Camborne, Liberal Democrat)

I agree with the hon. Gentleman. There are serious questions to be asked about why the Government should seek to specify how councils respond to petitions, let alone why they should reserve the right to do so further in the future.

Rosie Winterton (Minister of State (Pensions Reform; Minister for Yorkshire and Humber), Department for Work and Pensions; Doncaster Central, Labour)

I want to clarify one thing quickly, because I believe that I may have said that we do not intend to exercise the clause 19 power. What we intend to do is to stipulate a 5 per cent. figure to trigger a debate. It is very important that I put that clarification on that record.