Clause 63
9:30 am
Edward Garnier (Shadow Minister, Justice; Harborough, Conservative)
Again, the debate can be reasonably short. Our amendments are intended to extract from the Government some understanding of the thinking behind the age limits and the composition of gangs. In case anyone gets over-excited, the amendments are probing.
The Government are providing that, for the purposes of the clause, those who commit qualifying offences or are suspected of committing qualifying offences—gang members—should be between the ages of 11 and 30. The applications can be made if—going to subsection (9), which is affected by amendment 445—the qualifying offence is committed by two or more persons.
Why did the Government choose those age limits— 11 at the younger end and 30 at the older end? The right hon. Member for Knowsley, North and Sefton, East and the Minister may have constituency experience of unattractive people misconducting themselves in gangs who may be over the age of 30. They may be egging youngsters on, as gang leaders who are off the balance sheet and careful enough not to be seen on the ground but who, none the less, may be the controlling minds of such gangs. I appreciate that if a person is under the age of 11, they are close to the age of absence of criminal responsibility under the law. None the less, I think that the Government may shut themselves out of an avenue if they think that the regime under clause 61 and the following clauses is a good one. The age group will be limited to between 11 and 30, albeit that I accept that most gangs are probably of that age group; certainly, when I have visited prisons—I think, 50 or so in the past two and a half to three years—most of the residents who are there for gangland-related offences are of that age group.