New Clause 10
Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Bill [Lords]
2:30 pm

Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield, Conservative)

So that the Committee is fully aware, let me say that new clause 10 was debated with amendment 57. I say to Her Majesty’s Opposition that it would have been appropriate for them to have advised me that they wished to press it to a Division.

Mr. Burnsrose—

Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield, Conservative)

Are you going to question the Chairman?

Simon Burns (Whip, Whips; West Chelmsford, Conservative)

No. I was going to give an explanation and an apology.

Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield, Conservative)

Let me conclude what I was saying. It would have been appropriate for us to have been advised that a Division was requested on new clause 10.

Simon Burns (Whip, Whips; West Chelmsford, Conservative)

I give you my abject apologies, Sir Nicholas. I had just assumed that when we came in the proceedings to new clause 10, it would be automatically disposed of, like similar amendments, even though we had debated it. If that is wrong, it is my fault.

Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield, Conservative)

The Opposition Whip has been duly courteous. I think we can say that there has been a misunderstanding. I fully accept the explanation and as a result, we have dealt with things in entirely the correct  way. This has been an excellent Committee, so we do not want in any way to criticise what has happened, but the requirement of a Division has been honoured.

Phil Woolas (Minister of State (the North West), Home Office; Oldham East and Saddleworth, Labour)

I rise briefly, although we have much time left. My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Hall Green is an experienced Whip and I thank him and his counterparts for the organisation of these proceedings. We have not had internal knives and we have not felt under undue pressure. Ministers are often required to read regulations and policies into Hansard, and in this area of law in particular, there are many thousands of people outside the House in the immigration world who read every word very carefully, so I apologise to my hon. Friends and Opposition Members if they are fed up with listening to my Lancashire tones, but that is required sometimes. I thank my hon. Friends and the hon. Member for West Chelmsford for organising matters.

I also thank other members of the Committee. I try to build consensus for a Bill by working on its principles in formal and informal circles, but I also try to answer as comprehensively as possible the questions that hon. Members put from both sides of the Committee. This is a very complex area of law. The hon. Member for Ashford teased me about the number of Bills, and a draft simplification Bill is coming forward. The first part of the Bill has largely an organisational impact. The second part of the Bill will have profoundly beneficial long-term impacts on this country. That is why trying to secure consensus on it has been particularly important.

I thank the Clerks, who as ever have acted with superb professionalism. I thank the Bill team from the Home Office and across Whitehall who have worked on it for many months. I have been, in one capacity or another, responsible for 17 Bills in the House and I can say that the team who have been helping me and the Opposition in briefings are superb. I am very proud of them and grateful to them. We did, of course, get a run through the mill in the other place and I can tell you, Sir Nicholas, that West of Spithead is not somebody who abandons ship lightly, nor does he give in to an argument easily, so we have benefited. I did not want this Bill to start in the House of Lords, but it did, and I confess now that it is a better Bill for that.

Finally, I thank you, Sir Nicholas, for your chairmanship, with Miss Begg, and Mr. Gale at one sitting. I think that you know the esteem in which I hold you as a Chair and, indeed, as a constituency MP. I can tell the Committee that I often disembark from the train at Macclesfield to get my hair cut. There is a photograph of you cutting the ribbon in the hairdresser’s from some years ago. If I could get that sort of recognition in my constituency, perhaps I would have your majority. [Interruption.] The haircut we will be silent on. Thank you, Sir Nicholas, for your chairmanship and your wisdom and guidance, as ever.

Damian Green (Shadow Minister, Home Affairs; Ashford, Conservative)

May I also extend my thanks to you, Sir Nicholas? As the Minister ended with the Chairman, I shall start with the Chairman, and with the small piece  of advice for the Minister that if he wants to have his picture in hairdressers in his constituency, perhaps he should get his hair cut in his own constituency and not yours, Sir Nicholas; but that is just a tip.

You have served the Committee very well, Sir Nicholas, and I thank both you and Miss Begg for your firmness and courtesy. I thank Mr. Gale for the short, whirlwind sitting when he proceeded at such a pace that he was moving on even before the Government Whip had got to his feet to move the Adjournment. We would have been there for many hours had Mr. Gale had his way, but we would have finished the Bill several sittings earlier. I thank also the Clerks for their help, especially at the start of the Committee. It has gone smoothly and I am grateful for that.

I agree with the Minister that the Bill is better for having started in the Lords. Their lordships’ debates were of an extremely high calibre and illustrated the pinch points of the Bill. I am grateful to the Minister for effectively conceding one of our amendments and for promising that the Government will implement that in relation to the provision of statistics. I am also grateful to him for promising to take away and look at what is still the most contentious part of the Bill. No doubt we will have further and better debates on that in the Bill’s later stages. I am glad that the Committee has proceeded so smoothly, Sir Nicholas.

Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington, Liberal Democrat)

I echo the thanks given to those who have participated in making the Committee a smooth-running and satisfactory affair. In the past, I have dreaded the Committee stages of Bills because of their complexity, but this one has been very well managed. I thank you, Sir Nicholas, for chairing this sitting and others so effectively, and I thank Miss Begg and Mr. Gale for their roles.

I thank the Minister in particular, as he has been very straightforward and courteous. He has done a very effective job of explaining complicated issues in a way that has been extremely helpful and that will be well documented in Hansard. He has also made some helpful comments about discretion and how it can be applied in appropriate circumstances. Clearly, some issues still require further investigation, such as how active participation and volunteering are going to work, as there are still some difficulties there. Apart from that, this has been a productive and positive experience, which I look forward to repeating at some point.

Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield, Conservative)

Perhaps I should have the last word from the Chair. I congratulate the Minister, the shadow Minister and his colleague, and the spokesman for the Liberal Democrat party, on the constructive and positive way in which they have dealt with this important Bill. It has gone through very smoothly because of the co-operation between both sides of the Committee. I sometimes think that such co-operation shows Parliament at its best—doing the job that it is here to do.

I thank the Clerk for the guidance and advice that she has needed to give to me from time to time. I thank the police, the doorkeepers and, of course, the very important Hansard writers, because it is always helpful to have everything that we have said recorded truly and properly for prosperity.

I listened to the debate on the Gurkhas with some interest, and I am happy to tell the Minister and the Committee that the regiment with which I had the honour to serve, the 14th/20th King’s Hussars, now the King’s Royal Hussars, had the great honour of being able to wear the Gurkhas’ cross kukris on our uniform jacket because of the battles we had fought with the Gurkhas in past campaigns.

I thank the Committee for dealing with the Bill in such a constructive way, and I shall pass on to my co-Chairmen, Miss Anne Begg and Roger Gale, the thanks and appreciation that have been expressed to us all. We were happy to do it, and the Committee has been a good one.